Daniel 7 A Leopard with wings and four heads

hotcoffee

New Member
Daniel 7:6 “After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule.​

Most of the commentaries only mention the leopard in passing. The first commentary that gives any real information aligns the Leopard to the Greeks and Alexander the Great.

The leopard represented the Greek Empire. Alexander the Great quickly conquered the civilized world by age 28. "Nothing in the history of the world, was equal to the conquests of Alexander, who ran through all the countries from Illycrium and the Adriatic Sea to the Indian Ocean and the River Ganges; and in twelve years subdued part of Europe, and all Asia." (Clarke)

After his death his empire was divided into four parts (four heads). Specifically, the four heads were Casander, Lysimachus, Seleucus, and Ptolemy, who inherited Alexander's domain after his death.

The Babylonian Empire dominated in Daniel's day. One might have guessed - especially in the reign of Belshazzar - that the next empire would be the Medo-Persian Empire. But how could Daniel know that the next world empire would be like a leopard in its rise and prominence, and that it would be divided into four parts? This shows a plain principle: God knows the future, and reveals certain details of the future through His prophets. It shows that God lives outside our time domain and can see the future as well as the past. He sees the whole parade of human history, not just the part passing in front of a single spectator. The proof of fulfilled prophecy is exceptionally persuasive; no wonder Peter says: We have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts (2 Peter 1:19).​

So now Daniel is dreaming of the future. According to the Precept Austin commentary [the one I've found the most helpful on this chapter of Daniel] Daniel is dreaming of the Greek conquest in 553BC. Alexander the Great wasn't even a twinkle in his grandmother's eye then. The Greek Empire didn't happen until 331-63BC. That's 200 years before it happened! It's comparable to the belly and thighs of the statue in Nebuchadnezzar's first dream.

Now leopards are known for their speed. This leopard had four wings, making it even faster. I guess that makes sense since Alexander the Great conquered part of Europe and all of Asia in just 12 years.

A leopard with four wings is one thing, but a leopard with four wings and four heads is just plain unimaginable.

Leopard_small.jpg

According to the commentaries, Alexander the Great died of alcoholism at the age of 38. When he died, his kingdom was divided into four parts. Thus the four heads makes sense. As the first commentary I cited says, the four kingdoms were divided between Casander, Lysimachus, Seleucus, and Ptolemy.

The last few words of the verse are, to me, the most amazing. There are only seven words in the phrase "and it was given authority to rule". Since seven is a perfect number, then it makes sense that Daniel is saying that God gave Alexander the Great the authority to rule. At least, that's what I garner from the commentaries.

:coffee:
 

hotcoffee

New Member
I'm going right through Daniel if that's what you mean. Is that ok?

I don't see a chapter 14 in Daniel. It ends at chapter 12. If you mean Daniel 7:14... it's coming.

:coffee:
 
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onel0126

Bead mumbler
I'm going right through Daniel if that's what you mean. Is that ok? I don't see a chapter 14 in Daniel. It ends at chapter 12. If you mean Daniel 7:14... it's coming. :coffee:
Just teasing HC--chapters 13 and 14 of the Book of Daniel aren't in your Bible--you'd have to get a Bible that is complete. Most Protestants are aware that the Apocryphal books were removed or moved to a "special section" in their Bibles. Most however (including yourself apparently) don't realize that whole chapters from books that were left in by Luther et al were removed. A shame really. I invite you to research for yourself the two missing chapters of Daniel. http://www.usccb.org/bible/daniel/13 http://www.usccb.org/bible/daniel/14
 

hotcoffee

New Member
Just teasing HC--chapters 13 and 14 of the Book of Daniel aren't in your Bible--you'd have to get a Bible that is complete. Most Protestants are aware that the Apocryphal books were removed or moved to a "special section" in their Bibles. Most however (including yourself apparently) don't realize that whole chapters from books that were left in by Luther et al were removed. A shame really. I invite you to research for yourself the two missing chapters of Daniel. http://www.usccb.org/bible/daniel/13 http://www.usccb.org/bible/daniel/14

Actually, I'm trying to avoid all the references to the Protestant/Catholic references in the commentaries. I don't think they are necessary and they add a bias. The book my mother gave me years ago has chapters on it.... and I decided to skip the whole debate.

On Jeopardy last night the final category was religion. Hubby said "that's your category". I told him "I'm faithful not religious". I got the answer correct but it was a fluke. The answer was Nazareth, what else could the N stand for on the cross.

I've read the Book of Mormon and maybe one day I'll get to the Apocryphal books. A friend gave me a copy of the Book of Mormon to read and asked me to let him know what I think. If I do read the Apocryphal Books, I'm sure I'll let you know what I think.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who would want to debate the subject with you. You don't need me to get involved in all that stuff.

There's so much to learn from the Bible I have. At this time, I don't see the reason to go looking for more.

:coffee:
 

onel0126

Bead mumbler
Actually, I'm trying to avoid all the references to the Protestant/Catholic references in the commentaries. I don't think they are necessary and they add a bias. The book my mother gave me years ago has chapters on it.... and I decided to skip the whole debate. On Jeopardy last night the final category was religion. Hubby said "that's your category". I told him "I'm faithful not religious". I got the answer correct but it was a fluke. The answer was Nazareth, what else could the N stand for on the cross. I've read the Book of Mormon and maybe one day I'll get to the Apocryphal books. A friend gave me a copy of the Book of Mormon to read and asked me to let him know what I think. If I do read the Apocryphal Books, I'm sure I'll let you know what I think. I'm sure there are plenty of people who would want to debate the subject with you. You don't need me to get involved in all that stuff. There's so much to learn from the Bible I have. At this time, I don't see the reason to go looking for more. :coffee:
Fair enough, however hardly a fair comparison--Books of the Apocrypha vs. the Book of Mormon. At least the apocryphal texts were in ancient Bibles. The Book of Mormon, well not so much. So does your Bible of choice have the Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7-8 ) as canonical? I mean if so, you have a Bible with a verse that has only been found in Greek manuscripts and not Aramaic manuscripts--the same for the last two chapters of Daniel. Just wondering why the mother of all Protestant Bibles (KJV) has it. Can't have it both ways...
 
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hotcoffee

New Member
I don't want to have this discussion.

I must admit that when I put in the text that I had read the Book of Mormon, I had an idea that you were going to think I was comparing that book with the Catholic books. I meant to put a disclaimer in. I don't compare them any more than I would compare the books I read written by atheists or agnostics. They are just reading materials.

I don't understand the KJV. There are too many thees and thous and I never get the meaning of the verses. And yes, I concede that the meaning may be skewed in translation from the KJV and the NIV. I'm willing to look at commentaries and study notes to get a better picture of what may be lost in translation.

In verse 11 of Daniel 7, the NIV calls God the horn. That would make no sense at all unless I looked it up.

My dad, the person who introduced me to my faith, told me to find a church I liked and stick with it. I have two sisters who are Catholic. My mother was Seventh Day Adventist, baptized in a Baptist Church. My great, great, great, whatever grandfather was a Primitive Baptist Preacher who built his church right here in Southern Maryland back in the late 1600's. My mother's family left Ireland because of religion. On my dad's side, my uncle is a Presbyterian minister. While my dad was in the Navy I only had the non-denominational church to attend on base in Puerto Rico. I thought I found the right church a few times, had my Bible burned because it was not the KJV, watched my friend get thrown out of a church because of emotional problems, and listened to others say that they would deny someone entrance to the church services because they had a problem with alcohol, tobacco, or wore the wrong clothes.

Here's the disclaimer about the difference between people and text. I'm not comparing the people in the church with the books excluded in the basis for religious discussion. I only mean to say that I don't belong in any particular religion. I am faithful to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, His only son. I don't condemn others for their religious beliefs [or lack of religious belief]. If others have found a religion they are comfortable with, then that's good for them. I do lien more towards the commentaries and Bible studies that are written by Protestants. I don't exclude a study or commentary because of the author. I depend on prayer to find the truth.

I'm faithful, not religious.

:coffee:

Let me just add this.... I don't want to have this discussion because I'm not educated enough to have it. All these posts that I do.... I try to put in links so that informed, educated people can look at my sources and see where I'm coming from.

I don't pretend to know the Bible.... If I didn't do these daily postings... I probably wouldn't be in my thumper every day. These posts keep me in the Word and I think there are a couple other people read them to keep themselves in the Word.

It's been a while since I put this disclaimer in... so here goes.... I'm not a preacher or a teacher. I've never been to seminary.... I'm just faithful.

:coffee:
 
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onel0126

Bead mumbler
HC--first and foremost I had no malice in asking my questions. I apologize for hijacking your post. My intent was to start a dialogue. I'll do it in my own thread next time. Have a great holiday weekend!
 

hotcoffee

New Member
You didn't hijack the post. I'm just not smart enough to discuss it with you.

I would encourage others who know what they are talking about to take up the discussion.

I read all your posts and go to the links you post. I enjoy them....

:coffee:
 
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