Don't tase me bro!

[Chris0nllyn]

The three officers responded to calls for a hit-and-run and driver traveling in the wrong direction in the northbound lanes of Jefferson Davis Highway near the University of Mary Washington pedestrian bridge.

A Hyundai driven by 34-year-old David Washington hit a Jeep, crossed the median and hit a street sign. The Hyundai eventually stopped in the middle of an intersection.

When Jurgens arrives, he initially approaches with his gun drawn, then circles behind a police cruiser where he draws his Taser.

When the Taser does not appear to fully connect with Washington, Jurgens pepper sprays Washington’s face. When Washington doesn’t get out of the car, Jurgens and Deschenes pull him out and onto the ground where they put him in handcuffs. Washington can be heard moaning, and saying “I can’t breath.”

Sources tell the Free Lance-Star reports that Washington had a stroke.

Charges have been filed against Washington for hit and run, reckless driving and driving on a revoked license. However he has not yet been arrested on the charges, according to police.

http://wtop.com/virginia/2015/05/fredericksburg-police-release-video-of-taser-pepper-spray-incident/

 

[b23hqb]

This is a lose-lose situation. If Washington suffered a stroke, he loses, not legally, but physically. If the cops, the wonder boys that are trained in all situations failed to detect signs of stroke, they lose.

It must truly be scary to be a cop these days. What do you do with every conceivable situation that could be followed up by a lawsuit?

 

[edinsomd]

If one can utter the phrase, "I can't breath." then yes, they can.

 

[digitallest]

Yet, sometimes, after uttering the words "I can't breathe," people have died from asphyxia. One could guess it was from their diminished capacity to breathe.

 

[Monello]

Poor guy, I hope he gets the help he needs. From the way he was speaking, it certainly sounded like he was in some sort of distress.

Interesting how the cop asks him what he is on. That would lead me to believe that they think he had taken some sort of illegal drugs that caused his erratic behavior. Most of the civilian/police interactions are with people high on something. But I'm sure that wasn't the case with this guy. So he suffers because of some preconceived ideas by police of how people are that fail to respond to their commands.

 

[Midnightrider]

Poor guy, I hope he gets the help he needs. From the way he was speaking, it certainly sounded like he was in some sort of distress.

Interesting how the cop asks him what he is on. That would lead me to believe that they think he had taken some sort of illegal drugs that caused his erratic behavior. Most of the civilian/police interactions are with people high on something. But I'm sure that wasn't the case with this guy. So he suffers because of some preconceived ideas by police of how people are that fail to respond to their commands.

The guy got tazed in the face because he was physically unable to lift his left hand when asked. If you watch the body camera videos, it looks like the first two cops were handling I just fine. This guy sows up and goes straight to the tazer and pepper spray.

 

[Monello]

The guy got tazed in the face because he was physically unable to lift his left hand when asked.

That was my point. He was physically UNABLE to comply due to a medical condition. He wasn't being belligerent nor was he high on something. The dude was sick but instead he was treated like a criminal. The police seemed to be highly stressed while barking commands that he couldn't perform. I'm sure the dude was also confused and trying not to get shot at. I'm not faulting the police as that job is hard enough as it is.

 

[rdytogo]

That was my point. He was physically UNABLE to comply due to a medical condition. He wasn't being belligerent nor was he high on something. The dude was sick but instead he was treated like a criminal. The police seemed to be highly stressed while barking commands that he couldn't perform. I'm sure the dude was also confused and trying not to get shot at. I'm not faulting the police as that job is hard enough as it is.

I see this differently. I think he suffers because he chose to drive without a license, and crashed into another person's vehicle. He certainly was physically ABLE to get behind the wheel.

 

[rdytogo]

This is a lose-lose situation. If Washington suffered a stroke, he loses, not legally, but physically. If the cops, the wonder boys that are trained in all situations failed to detect signs of stroke, they lose.

What training would teach you to identify the difference between a stroke, and being high or intoxicated after a chase? Who in the world could possibly do that?

 

[tom88]

It must truly be scary to be a cop these days. What do you do with every conceivable situation that could be followed up by a lawsuit?

An excellent justification for qualified immunity for police officers.

 

[digitallest]

What training would teach you to identify the difference between a stroke, and being high or intoxicated after a chase? Who in the world could possibly do that?

There is some basic education, State Patrol officers in my emt class in the mid 1990s spoke of an acronym related to stroke symptoms they could identify, they knew to ask questions about tingling or numbness in the extremeties, to listen for slurring of speech, one side of the body being weaker, or limp, one side of the face being slack, etc. There were no county leos in the class I took, but I recall being impressed with both the state patrol officers, their training covered a LOT of the info offered in the emt basic course. When introducing a new chapter, our instructor would ask the class if we had any training or experience with the subjects covered in that chapter, and more often than not, they both would raise their hand.

 

[rdytogo]

There is some basic education, State Patrol officers in my emt class in the mid 1990s spoke of an acronym related to stroke symptoms they could identify, they knew to ask questions about tingling or numbness in the extremeties, to listen for slurring of speech, one side of the body being weaker, or limp, one side of the face being slack, etc. There were no county leos in the class I took, but I recall being impressed with both the state patrol officers, their training covered a LOT of the info offered in the emt basic course. When introducing a new chapter, our instructor would ask the class if we had any training or experience with the subjects covered in that chapter, and more often than not, they both would raise their hand.

I am sure that officers receive first responder training. I doubt every officer receives EMT training. Either way, do you have an answer how an officer, who has just chased a guy with a revoked license and has hit another vehicle, be able to differentiate between a medical condition such as a stroke and a driver who is impaired.
I don’t know this for certain, but I would think it reasonable to assume that the vast majority of times officers confront these situations it is because of alcohol or drug impairments rather than stroke victims.
I don’t think it’s reasonable for officers to ask about the guys extremities after this chase.

 

[Gilligan]

Either way, do you have an answer how an officer, who has just chased a guy with a revoked license and has hit another vehicle, be able to differentiate between a medical condition such as a stroke and a driver who is impaired.

That.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Either way, do you have an answer how an officer, who has just chased a guy with a revoked license and has hit another vehicle, be able to differentiate between a medical condition such as a stroke and a driver who is impaired.

"Chased a guy"?

Um no, they got there after the guy had his stroke and crashed his car. They didn't know his license was revoked until afterward.

Regardless, is using a taser and 8 seconds of OC spray to gain compliance from a non-violent person justifiable? Apparently for some people. Not for the Sheriff.

 

[rdytogo]

"Chased a guy"?

Um no, they got there after the guy had his stroke and crashed his car. They didn't know his license was revoked until afterward.

Regardless, is using a taser and 8 seconds of OC spray to gain compliance from a non-violent person justifiable? Apparently for some people. Not for the Sheriff.

They didn't just get there. They responded to a hit and run. They didn't have any information the guy had a stroke.

Isn’t it convenient of you to support a police chief’s decision when they feel an officer has done wrong, but then to accuse law enforcement of a thin blue line when the officers are exonerated from complaints of wrong doing.
Either way, can you explain to me how the officer is to differentiate between a medical emergency and a drunk driver? The man didn’t abide by the commands of the officers.
Even more convenient for you to state the officers didn’t know the man’s license was suspended, but somehow you expect them to know the medical diagnosis right away.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

They didn't just get there. They responded to a hit and run. They didn't have any information the guy had a stroke.

Isn’t it convenient of you to support a police chief’s decision when they feel an officer has done wrong, but then to accuse law enforcement of a thin blue line when the officers are exonerated from complaints of wrong doing.
Either way, can you explain to me how the officer is to differentiate between a medical emergency and a drunk driver? The man didn’t abide by the commands of the officers.
Even more convenient for you to state the officers didn’t know the man’s license was suspended, but somehow you expect them to know the medical diagnosis right away.

They responded, but did not "chase" like you said. Nor did they "chase a guy with a revoked license", implying they were in a car chase with a hardened criminal they knew didn't have a license.

A chief has discretion to fire his officers. I actually support that rather than the union led hiring/firing process.

I'm not asking police to be doctors here. I'm not saying they should conclude what condition someone may have on the fly. I'm saying there's no reason to tase and OC spray a guy for 8 seconds (which should have been some indicator) when he wasn't violent. Using these methods to gain compliance is an issue I have.

Then to jump on the guy and act like he's a dirt bag is simply uncalled for.

It's apparently against policy.

 

[Monello]

He certainly was physically ABLE to get behind the wheel.

He was able to drive then had a medical issue that left 1 side of his body paralyzed. He was unable to move his 1 arm. I understand the fact that his hand hidden behind the car door is a potentially fatal situation for the police. I don't think a non compliant drunk warrants pepper spray or a wood shampoo.

 

[rdytogo]

They responded, but did not "chase" like you said. Nor did they "chase a guy with a revoked license", implying they were in a car chase with a hardened criminal they knew didn't have a license.

A chief has discretion to fire his officers. I actually support that rather than the union led hiring/firing process.

I'm not asking police to be doctors here. I'm not saying they should conclude what condition someone may have on the fly. I'm saying there's no reason to tase and OC spray a guy for 8 seconds (which should have been some indicator) when he wasn't violent. Using these methods to gain compliance is an issue I have.

Then to jump on the guy and act like he's a dirt bag is simply uncalled for.

It's apparently against policy.

The chief did not fire the officer, he resigned. In my opinion, they treated him like a guy who hit a vehicle, ran, then wouldn't comply with thier commands.

 

[rdytogo]

He was able to drive then had a medical issue that left 1 side of his body paralyzed. He was unable to move his 1 arm. I understand the fact that his hand hidden behind the car door is a potentially fatal situation for the police. I don't think a non compliant drunk warrants pepper spray or a wood shampoo.

Did someone strike him with a wooden object or is that what you are adding the story to justify what happened?

 

[Chris0nllyn]

The chief did not fire the officer, he resigned. In my opinion, they treated him like a guy who hit a vehicle, ran, then wouldn't comply with thier commands.

I'm sure his superior officers played no role in the decision to resign and walk away with a pension.

Again, the devices used on this man should be the first options when trying to gain compliance from a violent subject. Not to gain compliance from a non-violent man having a medical episode.

Did someone strike him with a wooden object or is that what you are adding the story to justify what happened?

Kind of like the officers "chasing a man with a revoked license"?