Why would anyone look to the Catholic Church when

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Bobwhite

Active Member
Chuckt said:
New Book Traces Sad Recent History of Priest Sex Scandals

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/08/10/new-book-traces-sad-recent-history-of-priest-sex-scandals/

This is a serious question though. Why would anyone look to the Catholic Church for guidance in faith and morals when they've been covering up abuse for years?

I tracked a lot of the court cases in the news about the Catholic church and posted them on an ex-catholic website for a long time.
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Who do you think people should look to for guidance in faith and morals?
 
onel0126

onel0126

Bead mumbler
I tracked a lot of the court cases in the news about the Catholic church and posted them on an ex-catholic website for a long time.
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Did you do the same for Protestant pastors--both the abusers and the thieves of their flock's millions? How about the public school teachers and camp counsellors? Congratulations detective!
 
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Chuckt

Guest
Bobwhite said:
Who do you think people should look to for guidance in faith and morals?
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But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

http://biblehub.com/john/2-24.htm

We're born with a sin nature. No one has to tell us to lie because man does that naturally.

The reason why God doesn't judge evil is because I've done stuff wrong, I've made mistakes, I've unintentionally hurt people.

I believe God will do something about the evil one day because He can't be good if He didn't. The question is what side of God do you want to be on when He decides to put away all of the evil in the world.
 
B

Bobwhite

Active Member
Chuckt said:
But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

http://biblehub.com/john/2-24.htm

We're born with a sin nature. No one has to tell us to lie because man does that naturally.

The reason why God doesn't judge evil is because I've done stuff wrong, I've made mistakes, I've unintentionally hurt people.

I believe God will do something about the evil one day because He can't be good if He didn't. The question is what side of God do you want to be on when He decides to put away all of the evil in the world.
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What I meant was what church to you look to for guidance. It's clear from your statement that it's not the Catholic Church. I was actually trying to get to the point that onel0126 made about whether you did any research on churches other than the Catholic Church.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
Bobwhite said:
What I meant was what church to you look to for guidance. It's clear from your statement that it's not the Catholic Church. I was actually trying to get to the point that onel0126 made about whether you did any research on churches other than the Catholic Church.
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Has anyone been to all of the churches in the world? No. Have people been to a great number of Churches? Yes.

Truth comes from a person named Jesus Christ.


Which church is the one true church?

https://carm.org/questions/about-church/which-church-one-true-church


John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus is the way. Jesus is the truth. We come by Jesus to heaven and not by a church.

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Truth is the foundation of the apostles and prophets which you can't lay because God laid that foundation. No further foundation is needed and there is no need for apostolic succession.

Jude 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

The faith was once delivered (aorist passive participle) "indicates an act that was completed in the past with no continuing element".

'Is the church the final arbiter of truth itself?'
No. 'Scripture says it is the pillar and support of the truth. (1 Tim. 3:15)' The truth is Jesus Christ.
 
Bann

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
Chuckt said:
Has anyone been to all of the churches in the world? No. Have people been to a great number of Churches? Yes.

Truth comes from a person named Jesus Christ.

Which church is the one true church?

https://carm.org/questions/about-church/which-church-one-true-church

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jesus is the way. Jesus is the truth. We come by Jesus to heaven and not by a church.

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Truth is the foundation of the apostles and prophets which you can't lay because God laid that foundation. No further foundation is needed and there is no need for apostolic succession.

Jude 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

The faith was once delivered (aorist passive participle) "indicates an act that was completed in the past with no continuing element".

'Is the church the final arbiter of truth itself?'
No. 'Scripture says it is the pillar and support of the truth. (1 Tim. 3:15)' The truth is Jesus Christ.
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I believe that you believe YOUR way of faith is the only way and that is not what Jesus taught.
 
Radiant1

Radiant1

Soul Probe
What the churches teach is sometimes very different from what Christians do. Don't confuse the two. It's the teachings that people look to for guidance.

When a child there was rare occasions when my parents taught me to do or not do something that they themselves were not doing or doing. Of course I saw it as hypocrisy, but that doesn't mean what they were teaching me was wrong or should be discarded.

So, Chuckt, as others have pointed out, there are similar scandals and coverups in numerous organizations whether religious or not. As suggested, perhaps you can put your microscope on other organizations as well and pass your holy judgment on them too. I look forward to you posting your findings online. :yay:
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
GURPS said:
so you dont think the Catholic Church is a 'real' church :shrug:
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They have an incomplete gospel and that is the nicest thing I can say about it. An incomplete gospel won't get you to heaven and it is your choice.
 
Radiant1

Radiant1

Soul Probe
Chuckt said:
They have an incomplete gospel and that is the nicest thing I can say about it. An incomplete gospel won't get you to heaven and it is your choice.
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I might remind you that the bible you read has *less* books than the Catholic bible does, so it could rightly be said that your bible is "incomplete".

Here's a clip from wiki regarding Luther's Protestant bible (emphasis mine):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther's_canon#Deuterocanonical_books
Luther eliminated the deuterocanonical books from the Catholic Old Testament, terming them "Apocrypha, that are books which are not considered equal to the Holy Scriptures, but are useful and good to read".[4] He also argued unsuccessfully for the relocation of the Book of Esther from the canon to the Apocrypha, because without the deuterocanonical additions to the Book of Esther, the text of Esther never mentions God. As a result, Protestants and Catholics continue to use different canons, which differ both in respect to the Old Testament and in the concept of the Antilegomena of the New Testament.

And another:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther's_canon#Hebrews.2C_James.2C_Jude_and_Revelation
Luther made an attempt to remove the books of Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelation from the canon (notably, he perceived them to go against certain Protestant doctrines such as sola gratia and sola fide), but this was not generally accepted among his followers. However, these books are ordered last in the German-language Luther Bible to this day.[5]


You might want to re-think your choice considering you think it dependent upon your salvation. :huggy:
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
If you believe Muslims give tacit approval to terrorism by being.members of the faith, what do you believe Catholics approve of by standing by their church?
 
Radiant1

Radiant1

Soul Probe
itsbob said:
If you believe Muslims give tacit approval to terrorism by being.members of the faith, what do you believe Catholics approve of by standing by their church?
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It could be argued that Islam actually *teaches* terrorism, but even so speaking for myself of course, I don't particularly believe that about Muslims. With that having been said, however, the Catholic Church certainly does not *teach* sexual abuse.

Do Mormons give tacit approval of polygamy and child rape by believing in the Mormon faith? Do patriots give tacit approval to criminal politicians by believing in what their nation stands for? Do you give tacit approval to adultery if you stay friends with an adulterer? I'd answer no to all of these questions.

So, do Catholics give tacit approval to child sex abuse by standing behind Catholicism? I certainly don't think so.
 
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Bird Dog

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
Chuckt said:
They have an incomplete gospel and that is the nicest thing I can say about it. An incomplete gospel won't get you to heaven and it is your choice.
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Just another one of those gutterswipes, who pull themselves out of the gutter, find Jesus, then start condemning the Catholic Church
You are not the first one to come n these foums and start this ####.

Pretty soon you'll be arrested for trashing statues of Mary
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
Radiant1 said:
It could be argued that Islam actually *teaches* terrorism, but even so speaking for myself of course, I don't particularly believe that about Muslims. With that having been said, however, the Catholic Church certainly does not *teach* sexual abuse.

Do Mormons give tacit approval of polygamy and child rape by believing in the Mormon faith? Do patriots give tacit approval to criminal politicians by believing in what their nation stands for? Do you give tacit approval to adultery if you stay friends with an adulterer? I'd answer no to all of these questions.

So, do Catholics give tacit approval to child sex abuse by standing behind Catholicism? I certainly don't think so.
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If you have to rationalize your religion with that kind of presumption, what does that do for Catholicism?

The church was allegedly shuffling accused priests from parish to parish until one church official got arrested. It is a different story.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
Radiant1 said:
I might remind you that the bible you read has *less* books than the Catholic bible does, so it could rightly be said that your bible is "incomplete".

Here's a clip from wiki regarding Luther's Protestant bible (emphasis mine):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther's_canon#Deuterocanonical_books
Luther eliminated the deuterocanonical books from the Catholic Old Testament, terming them "Apocrypha, that are books which are not considered equal to the Holy Scriptures, but are useful and good to read".[4] He also argued unsuccessfully for the relocation of the Book of Esther from the canon to the Apocrypha, because without the deuterocanonical additions to the Book of Esther, the text of Esther never mentions God. As a result, Protestants and Catholics continue to use different canons, which differ both in respect to the Old Testament and in the concept of the Antilegomena of the New Testament.
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I would really like you to read "The Canon of Scripture" by F.F. Bruce before you give me one sided arguments.
The other book I would like you to read is Geisler and Nix, "A General Introduction To The Bible
Tthe Church which was "...built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" (Ephesians 2:20).

Then you have a framework to start asking questions like: Who were the apostles and prophets? One clue comes from Jesus and it is important for everyone to know their Bibles. "That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation."-Luke 11:50-51

There you start with a genealogy of the prophets which was from Abel to Zacherias. If you have books before or after these men then you have to have other Biblical support from Jesus or they have to be classified apart from the Prophets.

Another evidence for what was included in the Canon comes from Jesus. “…that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms concerning me.”-Luke 24:44 Jesus gives the division of scripture and it doesn’t include the Apocrypha because the division is "The Law of Moses", "The Prophets" and the "Psalms".

A lot of people think the denial of the Apocrypha is a Protestant invention. The truth is that the development of the Cannon of Scripture is not an invention of any one person, group, church, denomination or council. I do feel that the Protestants have recognized what the majority has recognized since the church fathers.

It is a lot of reading and you have to know your Bible. If you don't know your Bible then someone may claim authority that they don't have. If someone claims authority that they shouldn't have them they come between God and that person. There are also numerous warnings not to add to or subtract from the Word of God.

There are more tests as to why the Apocrypha is not scripture and why would you try to prove something that your church doesn't believe in anyway? There is thetimes dot co dot uk newspaper article called "The Catholic Church no longer swears by the truth of the Bible". Some pewbies may not be aware of the article but the article is now on a paid news site and you might get references to the article if you google it but because of copyright laws, it can't be posted.
 
C

Chuckt

Guest
Bird Dog said:
Just another one of those gutterswipes, who pull themselves out of the gutter, find Jesus, then start condemning the Catholic Church
You are not the first one to come n these foums and start this ####.

Pretty soon you'll be arrested for trashing statues of Mary
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I actually went to a funeral at a Catholic church because my last boss was Catholic and I actually liked the service but the point is to prove that some Catholics are not saved and going to heaven and my goal is not to trash the Church but to speak the truth in love and let the chips fall where they may.

1 Corinthians 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

If an idol is nothing in the world because the god behind it doesn't exist, why should I care if you have statues? It isn't on my conscience.
Unfortunately, your false accusation of me is based on a belief I don't have. I can prove what I believe. You have shown your misunderstanding of what I don't believe. What you are doing is giving yourself a reputation for false accusations and causing trouble for people who have done nothing. If it isn't the truth then what is it? Would you not tell the truth to defend something that was false?
 
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