5 Ways Christian Privilege Shows Up During the Winter Holida

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
From Facebook

Andrew Klavan
7 hrs ·
This writer ought to remind all those crucified Christians in Syria and Iraq of their privilege!


5 Ways Christian Privilege Shows Up During the Winter Holiday Season

5-Ways-Christian-Privilege-Shows-Up-During-the-Winter-Holiday-Season.jpg

Like other forms of privilege, Christian privilege is the idea that Christians are afforded unearned benefits in our society that other religious groups and atheists do not receive.

These unearned benefits can be subtle, such as seeing their beliefs portrayed positively in the media, and not-so-subtle, such as being safe from the bullying and violence many non-Christians experience as a result of their beliefs (or lack thereof).

Non-Christians experience marginalization differently depending on their particular identity. Atheists are subject to certain stigmas and prejudices because they do not believe in a deity at all, while Muslims face Islamophobia, which intersects with racism.
 

Radiant1

Soul Probe
Another pathetic example showing the US Christian victimization mindset while citing non-US Christians to do it.

Agreed, but at the same time I don't think Atheists are subject to stigmas. Other religions, yes; Atheists, no. I could be wrong, I just haven't witnessed it. Have you ever been discriminated against or stigmatized because you are an Atheist? If so, is this something that only happens in the south or something?
 

TheLibertonian

New Member
If you can find a public official who's admitted to being an atheist, then I'd be genuinely surprised.

Atheism is still seen in many ways as being strange or even dangerous. People still freak out of Dungeons and Dragons for gods sake and that's not even a THING. Declaring you don't believe there to be any interventionist deities is a whole nother realm.
 

Radiant1

Soul Probe
If you can find a public official who's admitted to being an atheist, then I'd be genuinely surprised.

Atheism is still seen in many ways as being strange or even dangerous. People still freak out of Dungeons and Dragons for gods sake and that's not even a THING. Declaring you don't believe there to be any interventionist deities is a whole nother realm.

Fair 'nuff. Like I said, I don't witness it, but then again I'm not Atheist so I may be blind to it, which is why I asked.

As for those Dungeons and Dragons people.... we should just shut them away in a cell and throw away the key. :lol:
 
Agreed, but at the same time I don't think Atheists are subject to stigmas. Other religions, yes; Atheists, no. I could be wrong, I just haven't witnessed it. Have you ever been discriminated against or stigmatized because you are an Atheist? If so, is this something that only happens in the south or something?

Well, someone on this forum once referred to me as the 'devil' once, but that really doesn't bother me.

I haven't been an Atheist that long - primarily since my NDE, about 7 yrs ago, my NDE backfired I suppose, go figure! But my views were changing long before that happened and, btw, at the time I was attending - get ready for it - mass on a regular basis. Yup, I've attended hundreds of masses, and hundreds of protestant services before that. I was brought up protestant and used to sing duets with my sister in church, attended bible studies, participated in various evangelical functions...the whole nine yards.

Getting back to your discrimination of Atheists question, I agree with Libertonian's post that it's still a problem in the US (not nearly so in Canada, Australia, and Western Europe)... but must admit that personally I have not experienced much animosity. My friends and family know, the strong theists among them seem a little unnerved by it but I don't attempt to hide it. And typically, I am sensitive to others, discussing my views only if they inquire, and without condescension toward theirs. But, as you commented, I'm not always as nice on this forum.
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
I have not seen any discrimination or problems directed at Atheists/Secular Progressives in my small world.
Even on these forums, truly a minuscule part of the population, no condescending remarks, or threads started in a negative way.
I've seen more hate spewed at Catholics and some others than Atheists/Secular Progressives and it is not just from the Evangelicals, its been other Progressives as NHboy and a few others, I've seen in the WAPO, and other forms of the MSM. I have never seen a negative article in the WAPO or Huffpo about Atheists/Secular Progressives.....

Also, look at the source of the article and look at other articles, not your everyday journalism

So, what is this privilege we have?
 
Last edited:

TheLibertonian

New Member
I dislike the word privilege, because it's really meant to refer to the concept of "private law", which is literally what it means, rather then what it is in this case.

IN this case it's being the default. See, I'm a tall bearded white guy with a tidewater accent. So people just assume I happen to be a christian. That's rather what it is, the automatic assumption that the "Default" is christian or at least religious.

And again, look at our public officials. "God and family!". Well, I don't have God. Does that mean I'd be a bad public official?
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
I dislike the word privilege, because it's really meant to refer to the concept of "private law", which is literally what it means, rather then what it is in this case.

IN this case it's being the default. See, I'm a tall bearded white guy with a tidewater accent. So people just assume I happen to be a christian. That's rather what it is, the automatic assumption that the "Default" is christian or at least religious.

And again, look at our public officials. "God and family!". Well, I don't have God. Does that mean I'd be a bad public official?
I don't think it would make you a bad public official. However, I think it would make you an unlikely-to-be-elected public official. People vote what they know, what they believe in. As a non-believer, you are likely not going to have similar value systems with your constituents which would make your motives and actions always suspect. We've discussed before that an atheist's value system is centered on "what do I feel is right or wrong today" and not a set value system. What an atheist is likely to feel is right or wrong today is likely, in the United States, to be based on the general societal value system which is overwhelmingly Judeo-Christian, but that doesn't mean it will remain that way.

Just like no one can say all Christians think "X", or will even act in a Christian manner, the voting public likes to understand the value system of their elected officials and have a certain level of expectation from that. An atheist's value system isn't written, isn't consistent, isn't reviewable in any way. And, atheists are very much in the minority with not very good representation based on who claims to act in the name of atheism. Most well-known atheists are really jerks. :shrug: Just my opinion.
 

TheLibertonian

New Member
I don't think it would make you a bad public official. However, I think it would make you an unlikely-to-be-elected public official. People vote what they know, what they believe in. As a non-believer, you are likely not going to have similar value systems with your constituents which would make your motives and actions always suspect. We've discussed before that an atheist's value system is centered on "what do I feel is right or wrong today" and not a set value system. What an atheist is likely to feel is right or wrong today is likely, in the United States, to be based on the general societal value system which is overwhelmingly Judeo-Christian, but that doesn't mean it will remain that way.

Just like no one can say all Christians think "X", or will even act in a Christian manner, the voting public likes to understand the value system of their elected officials and have a certain level of expectation from that. An atheist's value system isn't written, isn't consistent, isn't reviewable in any way. And, atheists are very much in the minority with not very good representation based on who claims to act in the name of atheism. Most well-known atheists are really jerks. :shrug: Just my opinion.

Which right there is rather a massive assumption. That I cannot have an internalized long standing ethical or moral belief system based on reason that isn't prone to change.

It's true I will change my view on something given enough evidence, but that's not special to atheist, that's to people who are reasonable. The path to wisdom is based on knowledge of our ignorance.

And I hate to tell you this, but the value system of Christians has changed dramatically over the last thousand and some odd years. Wars have been started over it. In fact, this black and white dualism that is so often paraded about, how the world is divided into "Good" and "Evil", was a direct competitor to the more nuanced view of the catholic church as it rose.

A vast majority of Christians in the modern world would be seen as sinful and degenerate by the standards of those christians even five hundred years ago.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Which right there is rather a massive assumption. That I cannot have an internalized long standing ethical or moral belief system based on reason that isn't prone to change.
It's not an assumption - you restated my very position :lol:. Your system is internalized, not open for public review or with any reason to be established long term, whether it is self-imposed long term or not.
It's true I will change my view on something given enough evidence, but that's not special to atheist, that's to people who are reasonable. The path to wisdom is based on knowledge of our ignorance.
No argument. Doesn't change my point at all (in fact it further reinforces it), but no argument.
And I hate to tell you this, but the value system of Christians has changed dramatically over the last thousand and some odd years. Wars have been started over it. In fact, this black and white dualism that is so often paraded about, how the world is divided into "Good" and "Evil", was a direct competitor to the more nuanced view of the catholic church as it rose.
I believe I made mention of that, too. However, gradual change over "the last thousand and some odd years" is very different from Monday to Tuesday.
A vast majority of Christians in the modern world would be seen as sinful and degenerate by the standards of those christians even five hundred years ago.
A vast majority of Christians would be seen as sinful and degenerate by the standards of the Bible in every time. It's even written in there as sort of a given. Again, I have no argument.
 

TheLibertonian

New Member
It's not an assumption - you restated my very position :lol:. Your system is internalized, not open for public review or with any reason to be established long term, whether it is self-imposed long term or not.No argument. Doesn't change my point at all (in fact it further reinforces it), but no argument.I believe I made mention of that, too. However, gradual change over "the last thousand and some odd years" is very different from Monday to Tuesday.A vast majority of Christians would be seen as sinful and degenerate by the standards of the Bible in every time. It's even written in there as sort of a given. Again, I have no argument.

Except no one reasonable has ever changed a core value from monday to tuesday, including atheist. Religion is not the only source of internalized morality that is consistent over a period of time.
 

cheezgrits

Thought pirate
It's not an assumption - you restated my very position :lol:. Your system is internalized, not open for public review or with any reason to be established long term, whether it is self-imposed long term or not.No argument. Doesn't change my point at all (in fact it further reinforces it), but no argument.I believe I made mention of that, too. However, gradual change over "the last thousand and some odd years" is very different from Monday to Tuesday.A vast majority of Christians would be seen as sinful and degenerate by the standards of the Bible in every time. It's even written in there as sort of a given. Again, I have no argument.

So that I understand, what exactly are you assuming? That an atheist does not or cannot have a moral values system? Or that if they do, it isn't valid because it isn't endorsed or validated by an established religion base?

For example, I'm native, don't really believe in your form of god, nor am I a member of any organized religion. Does that assume that my moral code and values system isn't valid or that it is simply insignificant because I am the only validation for it?

Just trying to fully understand what it is you are saying.

And as it relates to the topic, I haven't noticed any discrimination towards me at all if my belief system ever even comes up. The biggest discrimination I've had is on this forum, from being called a pagan to being a cannibal. But those were the same ones that pretty much hate any religion or viewpoint that isn't theirs.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Except no one reasonable has ever changed a core value from monday to tuesday, including atheist. Religion is not the only source of internalized morality that is consistent over a period of time.

I'm not sure how to make it more clear, but I'll try.

An atheist's value system is internal. It can not be evaluated by others, because it is not written, not discussed in groups, not consistent amongst a group. There's no reason for it to not change from Monday to Tuesday, because there is no established, taught, consistent, written, known, reviewable, understood, socialized, shared core value system. From LDS to Roman Catholic, there are consistent Christian values. People understand that there are minor differences (whether you may dance or not, the level of PDA, little #### like that) amongst Christian denominations, but they're all Christian. Christian's get Jews and vice versa. Pretty major disagreement on whether or not the Christ has come, but the base value system is consistently understood because people can read each other's books and follow the logic of why one believes what they do. Muslims have a grossly different view of things than Christians or Jews, but they have a book and teach on at least a weekly basis about their value system as well.

Atheists have nothing - that's kind of the definition. They have whatever they think that minute. I can't review what atheists think, because there is no such thing as an atheist's guide to morals, to values. There is no such thing as an atheist's bible - again, part of the definition. Whatever an atheist believes that minute is that atheist's core value system. If a major event occurs in an atheist's life, that can instantly, drastically change that atheist's point of view, their core values. A Christian, for example of a religious person, will (as Pres. Obama famously phrased it) cling to their Bible to help them through with a consistent set of core values unchanged. Some religious people have their faith shaken by significant life events, but either become atheists and lose their core value system, or become strengthened in their faith and are stronger religious people.

This is not a slam on atheists or a reason for religious people to claim any kind of superiority. It's simply in the definitions. Yes, religious people break their own rules (sin), and that's a bad thing. Atheists can just change their rules at will, and the break becomes the new rule.

I've never claimed religion as the only source of internalized morality that is consistent. Certainly an atheist can choose to maintain consistent core values. They each, individually, on a moment by moment basis, make that choice. A religious person is given a set of morals, and over generations how those morals are viewed might evolve some. A non-religious person decides for themselves what their set of morals are, and over the course of an afternoon their morals might evolve some, because the only thing they have to benchmark their value system against is their own thoughts.

Again, most American atheists actually have a Judeo-Christian ethic system, because that is the ethic system of the society in which they were raised, and thus what they have internalized as "right" and "wrong". That doesn't change the fact that their view is malleable at will, with no written, consistent standard by which to judge their internalized-understanding of what is "right" and "wrong". It can be consistent as a granite statue, or as consistent as leaf in a hurricane - it's their choice. A religious person's values have a granite statue of a book to follow. Granite statues change, but slowly over time. Leafs get blown around in hurricanes pretty easily.

Don't take offense, because absolutely none is intended here. It's really just a part of the definition of each. Neither side can establish superiority, because to have superiority one must have a consistent standard by which to judge better or worse. Atheists and religious folk do not have consistent standards amongst themselves, so neither can reasonably claim superiority over the other. My way of thinking is superior to my way of thinking, your way of thinking is superior to your way of thinking, but there's no conversion chart, no equation by which my way of thinking can be compared to yours, or to the Muslim's, or the Jew's, or those who choose to follow the FSM. We're just different, and that's ok.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
So that I understand, what exactly are you assuming? That an atheist does not or cannot have a moral values system? Or that if they do, it isn't valid because it isn't endorsed or validated by an established religion base?

For example, I'm native, don't really believe in your form of god, nor am I a member of any organized religion. Does that assume that my moral code and values system isn't valid or that it is simply insignificant because I am the only validation for it?

Just trying to fully understand what it is you are saying.

And as it relates to the topic, I haven't noticed any discrimination towards me at all if my belief system ever even comes up. The biggest discrimination I've had is on this forum, from being called a pagan to being a cannibal. But those were the same ones that pretty much hate any religion or viewpoint that isn't theirs.
Hopefully my post above helps answer these questions.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
if I may ...


Catholics - don't eat meat on Friday's during lent [hence the name Mackerel Snappers] because of a Religious Convection

as a Protestant or Atheist if you chose to 'not eat meat' on Friday, that is not a decision based on a Religious Convection, but an 'internal' decision
 

TheLibertonian

New Member
I'm not sure how to make it more clear, but I'll try.

An atheist's value system is internal. It can not be evaluated by others, because it is not written, not discussed in groups, not consistent amongst a group. There's no reason for it to not change from Monday to Tuesday, because there is no established, taught, consistent, written, known, reviewable, understood, socialized, shared core value system. From LDS to Roman Catholic, there are consistent Christian values. People understand that there are minor differences (whether you may dance or not, the level of PDA, little #### like that) amongst Christian denominations, but they're all Christian. Christian's get Jews and vice versa. Pretty major disagreement on whether or not the Christ has come, but the base value system is consistently understood because people can read each other's books and follow the logic of why one believes what they do. Muslims have a grossly different view of things than Christians or Jews, but they have a book and teach on at least a weekly basis about their value system as well.

Atheists have nothing - that's kind of the definition. They have whatever they think that minute. I can't review what atheists think, because there is no such thing as an atheist's guide to morals, to values. There is no such thing as an atheist's bible - again, part of the definition. Whatever an atheist believes that minute is that atheist's core value system. If a major event occurs in an atheist's life, that can instantly, drastically change that atheist's point of view, their core values. A Christian, for example of a religious person, will (as Pres. Obama famously phrased it) cling to their Bible to help them through with a consistent set of core values unchanged. Some religious people have their faith shaken by significant life events, but either become atheists and lose their core value system, or become strengthened in their faith and are stronger religious people.

This is not a slam on atheists or a reason for religious people to claim any kind of superiority. It's simply in the definitions. Yes, religious people break their own rules (sin), and that's a bad thing. Atheists can just change their rules at will, and the break becomes the new rule.

I've never claimed religion as the only source of internalized morality that is consistent. Certainly an atheist can choose to maintain consistent core values. They each, individually, on a moment by moment basis, make that choice. A religious person is given a set of morals, and over generations how those morals are viewed might evolve some. A non-religious person decides for themselves what their set of morals are, and over the course of an afternoon their morals might evolve some, because the only thing they have to benchmark their value system against is their own thoughts.

Again, most American atheists actually have a Judeo-Christian ethic system, because that is the ethic system of the society in which they were raised, and thus what they have internalized as "right" and "wrong". That doesn't change the fact that their view is malleable at will, with no written, consistent standard by which to judge their internalized-understanding of what is "right" and "wrong". It can be consistent as a granite statue, or as consistent as leaf in a hurricane - it's their choice. A religious person's values have a granite statue of a book to follow. Granite statues change, but slowly over time. Leafs get blown around in hurricanes pretty easily.

Don't take offense, because absolutely none is intended here. It's really just a part of the definition of each. Neither side can establish superiority, because to have superiority one must have a consistent standard by which to judge better or worse. Atheists and religious folk do not have consistent standards amongst themselves, so neither can reasonably claim superiority over the other. My way of thinking is superior to my way of thinking, your way of thinking is superior to your way of thinking, but there's no conversion chart, no equation by which my way of thinking can be compared to yours, or to the Muslim's, or the Jew's, or those who choose to follow the FSM. We're just different, and that's ok.

But that difference should in no way effect the ability to govern, which is what is argued. If you're an atheist and you say you're an atheist and then try to run for office, chances are you aren't going to win.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
But that difference should in no way effect the ability to govern, which is what is argued. If you're an atheist and you say you're an atheist and then try to run for office, chances are you aren't going to win.

As I said, I'm not convinced that it automatically would negatively impact the ability to govern. However, I think it would make you an unlikely-to-be-elected public official. People vote what they know, what they believe in. As a non-believer, you are likely not going to have similar value systems with your constituents which would make your motives and actions always suspect. Thus, they are unlikely to vote for you, because of that suspect difference.

That, in no way, shape, or form establishes religion. It establishes a democratic republic.
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
But that difference should in no way effect the ability to govern, which is what is argued. If you're an atheist and you say you're an atheist and then try to run for office, chances are you aren't going to win.

If you say you are a Socialist Democrat, a Skin Head, a Cross Dresser, etc. and then try to run for office, chances are you are not going to win......
 
Top