Sheriff Cameron says he will do Red Light Cameras

[glhs837]

on his own. Screw the Commissioners you elected to represent you. Since I think he's getting the feel he's not getting the nod from them, he's decided he don't need no stinking Commissioners, he's doing it live. Second quote makes it sound like there's no competitive process, he's already chosen the same vendor we use for school bus violation cameras. Can the sheriff just commit the county to financial dealings on this scale?

http://somd.com/news/headlines/2016/20127.php

any opposition some of them might have to the idea may not matter as Sheriff Timothy K. Cameron said the ultimate authority about whether they become a reality is between his agency and the State Highway Administration

Cameron told The County Times that as the cameras were installed the vendor would simply collect a greater share of the fines until the cameras began to pay for themselves. Once that occurred the county would then split the collection of fines evenly, he said.

Even if there was a cost, Cameron said, his agency could probably afford to pay for the cameras since it usually returns nearly $2 million in unused funds to the county each year.

Now I know SB 277 that authorizes speed cameras requires that any locality pass a local law that authorizes their use.


http://www.marylandroads.com/OOTS/sb0277t.pdf

FOR the purpose of expanding to all counties and municipalities in the State the authority to use certain speed monitoring systems to enforce certain highway
speed laws under certain standards and procedures; altering the speed of a motor vehicle at which a speed monitoring system will produce a recorded
image of the vehicle; prohibiting the use of a speed monitoring system in a local jurisdiction unless authorized by the governing body by ordinance or resolution
adopted after reasonable notice and a public hearing;

But I can't seem to find the SB authorizing statewide use of RLCs.

 

[bilbur]

on his own. Screw the Commissioners you elected to represent you. Since I think he's getting the feel he's not getting the nod from them, he's decided he don't need no stinking Commissioners, he's doing it live. Second quote makes it sound like there's no competitive process, he's already chosen the same vendor we use for school bus violation cameras. Can the sheriff just commit the county to financial dealings on this scale?

http://somd.com/news/headlines/2016/20127.php





Now I know SB 277 that authorizes speed cameras requires that any locality pass a local law that authorizes their use.


http://www.marylandroads.com/OOTS/sb0277t.pdf





But I can't seem to find the SB authorizing statewide use of RLCs.

I guess karma is a bitch. I have always been in favor of red light cameras because I hate red light runners. I am indifferent to speed cameras because usually I am not going over what they would give a fine for. On Thursday I guess you could say I got what was coming to me according to those completely against the cameras. My dad was flown to DC for an emergency situation and at the time we were not sure he was going to make it. I guess I had other things on my mind because I completely missed the signs that said Construction, the speed limit dropped from 55 to 45, and it said photo enforced double fines. By the time I realized what was going on I saw the flash. I was doing about 60 at the time so this should be a pretty big fine. I will say this, it sort of is doing its job because I have been back every day since and have reduced my speed every time. My stance really hasn't changed, this situation was completely my fault and I deserve the ticket. I do wish it was run more by the state and local government and the money would go solely to them instead of a private company though.

 

[glhs837]

Were you in DC or Maryland? In Maryland, on a State Highway in a construction zone you would be in luck. See, by law in MD no speed camera can issue a ticket for more than $40, no matter how fast you were going.

http://www.safezones.maryland.gov/mdsafezones.html

If you were in DC, stand by for them to hook the Hoover to your wallet. Their fee structure is speed based. And 15mph over is pretty pricey. $100 bucks normal. But here's the thing. The construction zone cameras are supposed to keep workers safe, but stats show that what really kills workers in construction zones is stuff in the work are with them. They are rarely killed by cars speeding through. And you can get the same slow down effect by using the flashing "YOUR SPEED IS" signs. But those don't take any money.

 

[chernmax]

May be time for the Sheriff to be voted out!

 

[bilbur]

Were you in DC or Maryland? In Maryland, on a State Highway in a construction zone you would be in luck. See, by law in MD no speed camera can issue a ticket for more than $40, no matter how fast you were going.

http://www.safezones.maryland.gov/mdsafezones.html

If you were in DC, stand by for them to hook the Hoover to your wallet. Their fee structure is speed based. And 15mph over is pretty pricey. $100 bucks normal. But here's the thing. The construction zone cameras are supposed to keep workers safe, but stats show that what really kills workers in construction zones is stuff in the work are with them. They are rarely killed by cars speeding through. And you can get the same slow down effect by using the flashing "YOUR SPEED IS" signs. But those don't take any money.

They had one of those too, that is where I noticed it flashing 60 just before the flash of the speed camera. It was in Maryland so I might have lucked out. I guess I will see in a few days when the ticket comes in the mail.

 

[ShyGirl]

Were you in DC or Maryland? In Maryland, on a State Highway in a construction zone you would be in luck. See, by law in MD no speed camera can issue a ticket for more than $40, no matter how fast you were going.

http://www.safezones.maryland.gov/mdsafezones.html

If you were in DC, stand by for them to hook the Hoover to your wallet. Their fee structure is speed based. And 15mph over is pretty pricey. $100 bucks normal. But here's the thing. The construction zone cameras are supposed to keep workers safe, but stats show that what really kills workers in construction zones is stuff in the work are with them. They are rarely killed by cars speeding through. And you can get the same slow down effect by using the flashing "YOUR SPEED IS" signs. But those don't take any money.

Just something to keep in mind: If you appeal a speeding ticket in DC and they do not process it in xxx number of days, they have to dismiss it from the system.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Drivers-vs-DC-92174144.html
http://wjla.com/news/local/so-you-got-a-parking-or-speeding-ticket-here-s-what-to-do--101368

 

[glhs837]

Yeah, deciding unilaterally just pushed him over the edge in my mind. And I've always liked the job he and his have done. Sounds like the vendor has sold him a bill of goods and he's bought it hook line and sinker. And now the citizens of the county have to pay for that. Here's some snapshots of the moral quality of the vendor mentioned in the article. American Traffic Solutions, or ATS.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/39/3989.asp - Issue 10.2 million in illegal tickets in New Jersey, talk that down to 4.2 million, pocket 6 million in illegal profit.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/38/3849.asp - ATS Vice President fakes local residency and works under the table to shut down citizen efforts to put cameras on a referendum ballot in Mulkiteo, WA. Gets caught in 2011, ATS says he's fired for those shenanigans. Oddly enough, in 2012, he surfaces again in CA trying ton convince the Mayor there that citizens should have no say in enforcement efforts, and he can show the city how to stop such.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/35/3585.asp ATS works through a wholly owned and operated front group, the National Coalition For Safer Roads set up for them by a PR firm to lobby for laws favorable to them. Claims to be a non-profit organization, but it's board of directors is three ATS executives.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/32/3253.asp ATS plays the race card in a lawsuit to block a referendum in Houston while spending 1.7 million to save program from voter led referendum there. Says that the camera referendum was bait to lure conservative voters to the polls



So, are these the folks you want running a traffic safety program of any kind?

.

 

[vince77]

I got one on the SW Freeway in DC a number of years ago. Cost me $100, I wasn't paying attention, deserved it. Sent the check right in.

 

[edinsomd]

I guess karma is a bitch. I have always been in favor of red light cameras because I hate red light runners. I am indifferent to speed cameras because usually I am not going over what they would give a fine for. On Thursday I guess you could say I got what was coming to me according to those completely against the cameras. My dad was flown to DC for an emergency situation and at the time we were not sure he was going to make it. I guess I had other things on my mind because I completely missed the signs that said Construction, the speed limit dropped from 55 to 45, and it said photo enforced double fines. By the time I realized what was going on I saw the flash. I was doing about 60 at the time so this should be a pretty big fine. I will say this, it sort of is doing its job because I have been back every day since and have reduced my speed every time. My stance really hasn't changed, this situation was completely my fault and I deserve the ticket. I do wish it was run more by the state and local government and the money would go solely to them instead of a private company though.

Except if you had been pulled over by a human being, you could have apologized, explained the situation and perhaps received a warning, instead of a fine. It's worked for me before taking the wife to her flight at DCA. No talking to a camera.

 

[glhs837]

I got one on the SW Freeway in DC a number of years ago. Cost me $100, I wasn't paying attention, deserved it. Sent the check right in.

And that's fine, break the law, get caught, pay your fine. I have never objected to that, although it could be argued that with a camera that makes one location, 295, making up 28% of all DC camera revenue for 2012 (that was 23,000,000 dollars, just from I-295) a good case can be made that the speed limit on that road is nowhere near the 85th percentile it should be set to. So, if you set a speed limit on a roadway where everyone feels safe to go 55-60 down to 50, then ticket the crap out of them, are you really enforcing the law for the best, or just engaging in a commuter tax?

http://wjla.com/news/local/d-c-speed-camera-revenue-yields-23m-in-2012-aaa-reports-81362

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

Sheriff Cameron says he will do Red Light Cameras

The law keeper becoming the law breaker?

 

[edinsomd]

Sherriff Tim wants to put 4 of 5 RLCs on Rt. 235, one at the Pegg Rd. intersection I frequent twice daily. I have seen occasional outright stupidity there, but usually it's folks miss-timing the traffic flow and getting stuck blocking the box. That's annoying but hardly dangerous. Can't see how a RLC would help with that.

 

[BernieP]

If I may ...The law keeper becoming the law breaker?

He will make a fortune. I bet at rush hour they will get 3 vehicles on every cycle heading north.
All three lanes at MacArthur Blvd / Millstone Landing Rd. Stopped on green waiting for room across the intersection, well the wait was longer than they expected and light turned red.
All three were across the WHTIE LINE / even across the cross walk. Intersection was not blocked, but they were in a place that would earn them a ticket.
All because the traffic ahead stalled and they waited.

 

[glhs837]

If I may ...The law keeper becoming the law breaker?

Dunno, I'm sure he thinks he's okay legally, but I'm not sure.

Sherriff Tim wants to put 4 of 5 RLCs on Rt. 235, one at the Pegg Rd. intersection I frequent twice daily. I have seen occasional outright stupidity there, but usually it's folks miss-timing the traffic flow and getting stuck blocking the box. That's annoying but hardly dangerous. Can't see how a RLC would help with that.

He will make a fortune. I bet at rush hour they will get 3 vehicles on every cycle heading north.
All three lanes at MacArthur Blvd / Millstone Landing Rd. Stopped on green waiting for room across the intersection, well the wait was longer than they expected and light turned red.
All three were across the WHTIE LINE / even across the cross walk. Intersection was not blocked, but they were in a place that would earn them a ticket.
All because the traffic ahead stalled and they waited.

And that's one thing that worries me, Bernie. The Sheriffs statements about "tweaking" light timing a bit, although a few years back when I spoke to the SHA engineer who is in charge of such things, he seemed shocked that it would even be under consideration. I really got the feel from his tone that he certainly would brook no such nonsense, not on his damn lights. Still, the fact that the Sheriff would even say that at all has me wondering exactly how much he knows about the national history of these things. I still dont think there has been any documented cases of yellow tweaking here in MD.

The other thing he said was "Decisions have to be made about what constitutes a violation". Well, to you and I, and most folks, it's seems like a no brainer. Ah, enter the intersection when the light is red, win the prize. Pretty simple. Enter on red, IAW state law, you have failed to follow the traffic control device and get a ticket. Simple, really. But, if you are maximizing citations, it gets a bit fuzzy. AS far as I know, no system in MD issues blocking the box, because the camera cannot show you entered on red if you didnt, and in MD, and it cannot see the far side of the box to see if you entered it when it had no space for you. DC can, becuase they can do whatever they please. MD has laws, and they do have have to be followed.

What he's talking about specifically are two settings the systems have that, while having no effect on safety at all, have a huge impact on citation numbers. One you mentioned, being over the stop line, that's one. And right on red without coming to a full stop. Thgat second one I think tripled one municipalities
RLC citations. In a way, I hope he does that out of the box. Will ensure he does not get reelected, and also will ensure these automated enforcement carpetbaggers get run out of town a whole lot faster. You can go back and forth all day long about the tradeoff between rear end collisions, reducing violations vs reducing crashes, and most folks will just say "He's the Sheriff, he's right" and not even bother to put more thought into it. But if he stands up there and says right on red is dangerous, he will come off at best as an misinformed fool. And if he says "Well, its breaking the law, so we're gonna cite it, too bad", he comes off as a dic* grubbing for the citation dollars. There's no way to win that from a PR standpoint.

 

[MrZ06]

Cameron told The County Times that as the cameras were installed the vendor would simply collect a greater share of the fines until the cameras began to pay for themselves. Once that occurred the county would then split the collection of fines evenly, he said.

shouldnt it be up to the county to decide how to distribute the funds not the sheriff?

 

[glhs837]

Dunno. Seems like since he appeared to do the school bus camera thing (the ones that catch people passing them, not urchins passing notes inside of them) all by himself, he assumes he can do that with RLCs also. And maybe he can, I'm dying to see how this plays out. I did go digging, and sure enough, the person he has verifying citations is a Station Clerk, which according to his departments published breakdown is civil employee, not a sworn officer. I'm pretty sure that MD law requires any citation review to be done by a sworn officer.

 

[Hodr]

Sherriff Tim wants to put 4 of 5 RLCs on Rt. 235, one at the Pegg Rd. intersection I frequent twice daily. I have seen occasional outright stupidity there, but usually it's folks miss-timing the traffic flow and getting stuck blocking the box. That's annoying but hardly dangerous. Can't see how a RLC would help with that.

I imagine that if those lights hit people in the intersection when the light turns red (not blocking, but in the process of clearing) it will probably ticket them. Would be lots of tickets in the morning.

 

[Restitution]

And right on red without coming to a full stop. Thgat second one I think tripled one municipalities...

Hell... put up one of those right on red cameras at the stop sign on NB 235 by the Firehouse subs. Dozens of people NEVER stop there while trying to skirt the Chancellor's Run traffic light. They race in front of CPFCU and around that corner to plow right through the stop sign so they can get ahead of the oncoming traffic.

That would make them a MINT with that one camera!

 

[glhs837]

I imagine that if those lights hit people in the intersection when the light turns red (not blocking, but in the process of clearing) it will probably ticket them. Would be lots of tickets in the morning.

Hell... put up one of those right on red cameras at the stop sign on NB 235 by the Firehouse subs. Dozens of people NEVER stop there while trying to skirt the Chancellor's Run traffic light. They race in front of CPFCU and around that corner to plow right through the stop sign so they can get ahead of the oncoming traffic.

That would make them a MINT with that one camera!

HODR, as far as I know, which is pretty good, automated systems in MD cannot cite for blocking the box, since it has no way to verify the condition of the far side of the intersection when you entered it. blocking the box requires that the officer has to see was no room for you when you entered.

Rest, keep in mind, we are supposed to be stopping this thing from being about profit. It's supposed to be about safety. And while those folks are azzholes of the first water, they do not cause crashes.

 

[Hodr]

HODR, as far as I know, which is pretty good, automated systems in MD cannot cite for blocking the box, since it has no way to verify the condition of the far side of the intersection when you entered it. blocking the box requires that the officer has to see was no room for you when you entered.

Rest, keep in mind, we are supposed to be stopping this thing from being about profit. It's supposed to be about safety. And while those folks are azzholes of the first water, they do not cause crashes.

I was just guessing at their motivation, not suggesting that it was something they should be doing. Glad to know they won't actually ticket in that situation as I pretty regularly find myself doing it (again, not blocking, just in the intersection for a second or so as the light moves from yellow to red).