Socialism v. free market...

Larry Gude

Strung Out
If you're gonna be in a number of trades, in some places you have to be in the union, have qualifications, membership and it's rules.

If you're gonna be a doctor, nurse or dentist you have to be qualified. Perhaps even more so to be a vet.
Accountant, same thing.
Auto mechanics have all sorts of qualifications.

If you're going to be a contractor, you need to have all sorts of papers proving any number of qualifications.

Teachers, certified.

There is training and testing galore for all sorts of jobs including in ag where GAP, Good Agricultural Practices, teaches people from other cultures to NOT #### in the mum, or spinach, field.

When the plumber comes, even from a non union company, he may not have his card but you can be sure there is at least one master plumber in the company.

Military is one qualification after another. Computer people have certifications up the wazoo and ongoing training. Engineers. Scientists.


Now, as we enter September, it seems to me there are two areas that are pretty much totally free market and very much on our minds these days. One is the requirements to be a professional football player. A Ray Rice. A Colin Kaepernick. A Mike Vick. A Johnny Football. The other area where all you gotta do is be persistent and keep simply getting people to say "OK' with zero certification, not even the drug testing of football, is to be...

...one of the leading candidates for President of the United States of America.


Now, you can harrumph and try to polish this turd all you like but there is no requirement to be Sec State or a Senator or an MBA or a BA or even an associates or run a business, successful or up for debate, or even have a drivers license to show you've accomplished SOMETHING.

No. The total, free market gives us what we have and you'd not accept that in pretty much any other area of your life. Would you?

So, here we are.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Auto mechanics have all sorts of qualifications.

If you're going to be a contractor, you need to have all sorts of papers proving any number of qualifications.


Not Necessarily ...... if you hear of a good auto mechanic are you going ask for ASE Certs or take the recommendations of your friends

same thing with a handy man, you might pay to fix your well pump


Computer people have certifications up the wazoo and ongoing training.


Nope I have worked in IT for 15 years with no certifications all experience
 
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Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
Your thread title ereminded me of an old joke....

A young black kid asks his mother, “Mama, what is socialism and what is racism?”

“Well, Child... socialism is when white folks work every day, so we can get all our stuff, you know... like free cell phones for each family member, rent subsidy, EBT, WIC, free school breakfast, free school lunch, free healthcare, utility subsidy, and on and on ... you know. That’s socialism.”

“But, Mama, don’t the white people get pissed off about that?”

“Sure they do, Honey. That’s called racism.”
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
And yet the job with no requirements you pointed out is putting the requirements for all the other jobs in place.

Would it be a truly free market without the politicians? The same politicians that require more training hours to become a Cosmetologist than a police officer in the state of MD.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
The same politicians that require more training hours to become a Cosmetologist than a police officer in the state of MD.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/29/n...little-training-and-lasting-debt.html?hp&_r=0

is part of the blame - student loans ?

for a program to qualify for Gov. student loans / Grants they need to be x # of hours



The Government Licensing Scam

Last May a man named Mike Fisher, from the town of Newmarket, New Hampshire, performed an act for which he will pay dearly under penalty of law.

He engaged in a consensual commercial transaction with another willing individual.

He performed a manicure.

Mike Fisher, outlaw, enemy of the realm, planted himself outside the state Board of Cosmetology, invited his customer to join him, and committed the unpardonable sin of performing a manicure without a license granted by the very agents who work inside.

The agents didn’t remain inside for long.

As Mike lifted his sterile tools to work on his client (certain names have been withheld to protect the innocent), a bureaucrat from the all-powerful Board of Cosmetology emerged to hand him a sheet of paper. On the sheet was information explaining why he was in violation of state law, a fact of which Mike was already aware, since he intended to break the law. He had already been “spoken to” by state Attorney General Kelley Ayotte the week before.
 
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Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/29/n...little-training-and-lasting-debt.html?hp&_r=0

is part of the blame - student loans ?

for a program to qualify for Gov. student loans / Grants they need to be x # of hours

Student loans are an issue we could spend pages discussing, but the loans aren't setting the number of hours required to get a state license. Couple that with no requirement to actually need classroom education, and I doubt it. One can forego the 1,500 hours of classroom time required in the state of MD and spend 2 years as an apprentice.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Student loans are an issue we could spend pages discussing, but the loans aren't setting the number of hours required to get a state license. Couple that with no requirement to actually need classroom education, and I doubt it. One can forego the 1,500 hours of classroom time required in the state of MD and spend 2 years as an apprentice.



10-4


I vaguely recall an anecdotal story about some Tech Courses really being longer then the needed ...
... as well as unnecessary classes - like mandatory English / Math classes, because of Pell Grant Requirements
 

tommyjo

New Member
Now, as we enter September, it seems to me there are two areas that are pretty much totally free market and very much on our minds these days. One is the requirements to be a professional football player. A Ray Rice. A Colin Kaepernick. A Mike Vick. A Johnny Football.

You think someone can be a NFL player without being a member of the NFLPA??
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
No. The total, free market gives us what we have and you'd not accept that in pretty much any other area of your life. Would you?

So, here we are.

And yet we all know people who are educated and certified up the waz, who aren't worth a crap at their job.

While we don't *require* someone to work their way up to the presidency through certain means, in reality we do want them to have experience doing president/executive office things. Usually, anyway. Sometimes a goof off "community organizer" slips through, and ideally we learn not to do that again.
 

Restitution

New Member
The path to the Presidency is paved with only 2 bricks now-a-days....

1) Who is most popular
2) Who can give me the most free sh!t

Anyone that thinks any different is diluting themselves.
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
The path to the Presidency is paved with only 2 bricks now-a-days....

1) Who is most popular
2) Who can give me the most free sh!t

Anyone that thinks any different is diluting themselves.

It's almost 5:00pm and I'm feeling pretty diluted. :buddies:
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
If you're gonna be in a number of trades, in some places you have to be in the union, have qualifications, membership and it's rules.

If you're gonna be a doctor, nurse or dentist you have to be qualified. Perhaps even more so to be a vet.
Accountant, same thing.
Auto mechanics have all sorts of qualifications.

If you're going to be a contractor, you need to have all sorts of papers proving any number of qualifications.

Teachers, certified.

There is training and testing galore for all sorts of jobs including in ag where GAP, Good Agricultural Practices, teaches people from other cultures to NOT #### in the mum, or spinach, field.

When the plumber comes, even from a non union company, he may not have his card but you can be sure there is at least one master plumber in the company.

Military is one qualification after another. Computer people have certifications up the wazoo and ongoing training. Engineers. Scientists.


Now, as we enter September, it seems to me there are two areas that are pretty much totally free market and very much on our minds these days. One is the requirements to be a professional football player. A Ray Rice. A Colin Kaepernick. A Mike Vick. A Johnny Football. The other area where all you gotta do is be persistent and keep simply getting people to say "OK' with zero certification, not even the drug testing of football, is to be...

...one of the leading candidates for President of the United States of America.


Now, you can harrumph and try to polish this turd all you like but there is no requirement to be Sec State or a Senator or an MBA or a BA or even an associates or run a business, successful or up for debate, or even have a drivers license to show you've accomplished SOMETHING.

No. The total, free market gives us what we have and you'd not accept that in pretty much any other area of your life. Would you?

So, here we are.

Your premise is false. There is no requirement to be in a union in all states and all areas for any of those professions. Being certified to do a job is a good thing, in that it requires one to know what they're doing (something Obama admitted he didn't:
[video=youtube_share;dJfyXhw7tMA]http://youtu.be/dJfyXhw7tMA?t=37[/video]​
).

So, how do we figure out what these certifications are? We get people together who know what they should be (called subject-matter experts) and they work for the government, or for some sort of accreditation agency of some kind, and they establish common standards and practices. You don't usually have to follow those (just regulations and laws) unless of course you want to be successful in the job.

So, how do we figure out what the qualifications/certification are for president? We gather together a few hundred million people and ask them. You talk about running for the job as if that is an accomplishment. You sound like an Obama apologist in 2008 who said that running a presidential campaign qualified Obama to be president. Running for president is not an accomplishment.

I don't accept your premise for other jobs, or president. Sorry.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Your premise is false. There is no requirement to be in a union in all states and all areas for any of those professions. Being certified to do a job is a good thing, in that it requires one to know what they're doing .

OK, taking this in pieces, you're saying there are no certifications for teachers and doctors and engineers in some states?
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
OK, taking this in pieces, you're saying there are no certifications for teachers and doctors and engineers in some states?

Or areas. Many private schools allow nonunion workers. Unless a job requires a PE, one can often do design engineering. Etc., etc.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
OK, taking this in pieces, you're saying there are no certifications for teachers and doctors and engineers in some states?

On my first job, our two top design engineers were self-taught. Admittedly, they had tech training in the military, but what they knew, they learned through experience - for example, none of them had ever been near a circuit board or a computer in the military, but they routinely created their own interfaces and learned machine language.

On the other hand, we had a hire who presumably had an MIS degree, but had never seen 'drag and drop' and her understanding of simple computer concepts was shockingly bad. We eventually gave her busy work, because she was incapable of even the simplest tasks.

Later, when I returned to the same job after a break, I worked with a guy who was still in school. I've rarely met his equal when it came to computer brilliance.

Overall I'd say the free market will determine whether or not idiot MIS lady or genius student will get work. Stupid is as stupid does.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
On the other hand, we had a hire who presumably had an MIS degree, but had never seen 'drag and drop' and her understanding of simple computer concepts was shockingly bad. We eventually gave her busy work, because she was incapable of even the simplest tasks.


my 1st 'paid' IT JOB in 2000 - the lead Network Engineer recounted a story
- they had hired 2 Microsoft Certified Systems Engineers [besides Novell Certification the 'got to have' cert coming out of the 1990's]


1. could not upgrade the RAM in a Server
2. could not replace or add a Hard Drive - [SCSI Raid Controller]



but they were MS Certified .... [book smart - real world experience lacking]
 
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