Who are you going to support?

itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Obama and the Democrats have decimated our military.. Army is down to 450,000 men and women.. the lowest since before WWII.. yet our soldiers are fighting wars on multiple fronts.

About 10% of the Army is Combat Arms.. Infantry, Armor and Field Artillery...

Which means all of the wars the Democrats sign up for are being fought by less then 45000 people (mostly men).. many are deployed in support roles but boots on the ground, busting down doors... and the ones getting wounded and killed the most are around 45000.

Why is this important? A combat arms soldier gets NO rest.. Vietnam lasted 10 years.. give or take.. and career soldiers during that time may have deployed 2 MAYBE 3 times. We have young soldiers that are being deployed 2 or 3 times in their first enlistment

Our soldiers are tired.. complacent.. and they aren't staying. The Army is losing their experienced soldiers, the ones that are going to bring our sons and daughters home.

You do an op-tempo of deploying (and getting shot at) for 6 months to come home for 3 months before deploying again, that's not fun for anyone... when you'receive 18 and single not AS bad.. but when you get to that 8 - 10 year active soldier, he now has a wife and kids... what's he going to do? That experienced soldier that knows how to survive knows ISIS and the Taliban and how to defeat them.. he's leaving, letting the next soldier to learn by his mistakes instead of getting it passed down from a "master".

The Democrats are killing our military, and Clinton wants it to continue.. she wants an Army less than 400k.. more like 350k.. so she can"fund" her social programs. I mean have we ever met any candidate with more disdain for the military than Hillary?

A vote for Hillary is a vote against our soldiers.. and she'll be responsible for the decimation of our military.. putting our sons and daughters in harms way with worn out equipment and battered and tired soldiers.

Now... who are you going to support?
 
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itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Remember when we talked about a 600 ship Navy? Where are they now? Less than 300?

We are no longer the superpower.. and our enemies know this.. why do you think China is projecting power, and Korea is being such an irritation? Because they know there is absolutely NOTHING we can do about it. Russia wants to invade EASTERN Europe? Might as well..
 
LC_Sulla

LC_Sulla

New Member
https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/us-ship-force-levels.html

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SamSpade

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
awpitt said:
The wars the Democrats sign up for? Really?

Where were you when GWB got us into these wars?
Click to expand...

I did find it interesting when Hillary was questioned about the rise of ISIS - instead of taking credit for ending our involvement in Iraq,
she put the onus squarely back on Bush's shoulders as to the scheduled pullout. The "I didn't start it" defense.

However they did manage to insert us into conflicts in Libya and Syria, and instead of wisely ramping up the military, they chose to ramp it down.
I don't see the wisdom in that at all.
 
Chris0nllyn

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
SamSpade said:
Poll is too old.

While Clinton isn't their favorite, most recent polls I've seen put it :Trump, Johnson, Clinton.
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And non-scientific.

This the one you were looking at?
Conducted in September, it is the first scientific breakdown of voting preferences among service members, and includes more than 2,200 responses from active-duty troops. And it shows a very different race than the one playing out on the broader national stage.

Among the entire military force, Trump leads Johnson 37.6 percent to 36.5 percent, within the study’s 2 percent margin of error. Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton trails as a distant third-place choice, with only 16.3 percent of troops' support.
Click to expand...
http://www.militarytimes.com/articl...d-with-donald-trump-in-the-race-for-president
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
itsbob said:
So let's vote for Hillary and finish us off? Seriously?
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So, let's have that conversation. Is that what's gonna happen, someone is going to 'finish us off'? Kill the US?

Our subs alone mean we control the globe, agreed?

LANL has not been sitting idle under Obama in yet another under and unreported story of his years.

Our technological advances in computers, hacking, drones, all sorts of whiz bang stuff means we're probably able to seriously mess up anyone's command and control.

Anyone going to be able to actually penetrate our air space with much more than a gnat?



I mean, what are we talking about, here? An invasion of...what...Galveston? Hawaii? Anchorage? Or just our ability to play world cop? We've abused our military for the last 15 years for what purpose? To make America safe" To protect democracy? I don't see where we even let our military have much chain let alone be off of it and EVERYONE knows it. So, we can't send armored divisions hither and yon anymore? Fine by me. We've ruined OUR nation trying to 'promote' democracy around the world this past 15 years. We've fractured the nation so badly, new troops are going to need to go through basic just to find some sense of common purpose let alone national identify.

If Trump is just gonna bomb the hell out of ISIS, how does that translate to rebuilding the military? Hillary, a hawk, is very much just as likely to spend on the military because she's a neo con, neo liberal anyway and that means wall street and weapons. That means more people.
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
awpitt said:
The wars the Democrats sign up for? Really?

Where were you when GWB got us into these wars?
Click to expand...

We were in Syria? We're back in Iraq...

And you trying to put the blame on somebody that haset been in office 8 years does absolutely nothing to help solve today's problems, just deflects and ignores that there is a problem. Way to show you care about the men and women that have to suffer from these scenarios and the democrats decisions.

We have a Problem.. no we don't it's Bush's fault!
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Larry Gude said:
So, let's have that conversation. Is that what's gonna happen, someone is going to 'finish us off'? Kill the US?

Our subs alone mean we control the globe, agreed?

LANL has not been sitting idle under Obama in yet another under and unreported story of his years.

Our technological advances in computers, hacking, drones, all sorts of whiz bang stuff means we're probably able to seriously mess up anyone's command and control.

Anyone going to be able to actually penetrate our air space with much more than a gnat?



I mean, what are we talking about, here? An invasion of...what...Galveston? Hawaii? Anchorage? Or just our ability to play world cop? We've abused our military for the last 15 years for what purpose? To make America safe" To protect democracy? I don't see where we even let our military have much chain let alone be off of it and EVERYONE knows it. So, we can't send armored divisions hither and yon anymore? Fine by me. We've ruined OUR nation trying to 'promote' democracy around the world this past 15 years. We've fractured the nation so badly, new troops are going to need to go through basic just to find some sense of common purpose let alone national identify.

If Trump is just gonna bomb the hell out of ISIS, how does that translate to rebuilding the military? Hillary, a hawk, is very much just as likely to spend on the military because she's a neo con, neo liberal anyway and that means wall street and weapons. That means more people.
Click to expand...

Hillary may be a Hawk but she wants to gut the military. Period.. Subs? Really? How much suffering have our submariners found?

Not the point of the debate at all..
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
itsbob said:
We were in Syria? We're back in Iraq...

And you trying to put the blame on somebody that haset been in office 8 years does absolutely nothing to help solve today's problems, just deflects and ignores that there is a problem. Way to show you care about the men and women that have to suffer from these scenarios and the democrats decisions.

We have a Problem.. no we don't it's Bush's fault!
Click to expand...

Syria is not Bush's fault. Had we stayed his course and left large numbers of troops in Iraq, Syria probably doesn't topple nor does Egypt and nor does Libya. All points for you.

Instead, more and more and more US troops would be deployed, again and again, to walk around and find IED's in Iraq, to be killed by Iranian weapons, tactics and, probably, some Iranian troops, and for what? To continue to play occupying liberators?

Bush was not wrong for going into Iraq. Wars of liberation must NEVER be off the table for the United States. His mistake was in losing. He, and only he, was going to win that war and A'stan and he failed. Twice. And now we deal with the results. Is getting out and staying out bad for the US national interest? Really? What good, for anyone but the bad guys and those who make money off the forever war, come from the last 15 years? Certainly none for out troops.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
itsbob said:
Hillary may be a Hawk but she wants to gut the military. Period.. Subs? Really? How much suffering have our submariners found?

Not the point of the debate at all..
Click to expand...

You know she wants to gut the military? That's like saying she'll gut Wall Street. What she says to her followers has no basis in reality for her actions. Good lord, she's very likely to expand it as part of the Great Butt ####ing she's going to giver her followers if she wins.
 
T

tommyjo

New Member
LC_Sulla said:
https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/us-ship-force-levels.html

View attachment 115002

View attachment 115003
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Wondering if Itsbob bothered to look at this chart (Gilligan obviously didn't). 40 fewer ships from 2000 to 2007. 7 fewer from 2007 thru 2015.

But Mr. Obama and the Democrats are "decimating" the military.

Using this site: http://historyinpieces.com/research/us-military-personnel-1954-2014 It shows that the number of active military personal has been roughly the same since 1999. But Mr. Obama and the democrats have "decimated" the number of armed services personnel? Really??

The number of Army personal is actually HIGHER in 2014 than it was during all of the administration of Mr. Bush (43) except 2007.
 
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