Conservative, Liberal, Patriotic, blah blah blah

[vraiblonde]

One would think that not allowing government to control and regulate marriage would be a completely conservative stance, but no. It's a liberal/progressive stance and conservatives are against it.

You'd think the Left would be against Muslim immigration and making laws to accommodate them because of the Muslim stance against gays, women, abortion, etc. But nope, liberals/progressives lead the outcry when it is suggested that we vet Muslim immigrants or curtail their entry in any way.

What is patriotism, anyway? Wiki sez:

Patriotism is an emotional attachment to a nation which an individual recognizes as their homeland. This attachment, also known as national feeling or national pride, can be viewed in terms of different features relating to one's own nation, including ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects.

So national pride...are you proud of your country? Then you're patriotic. Ashamed of your country? Then you are not patriotic.

Does this mean you have to be proud of your president, or any government official?
Does it mean you have to love every single bitty thing about your country?

I think we can all - conservative and liberal alike - look at our history and point to things that we're proud of and things that are shameful. Most of us agree that slavery was shameful. Can we also agree that fighting a war to end slavery and make black Americans full citizens is something to be proud of?

I'm kind of blathering about here, but Steppinthrax's posts in another thread, and the responses to him, got me thinking about what it means to be conservative, or liberal, or patriotic.

 

[PsyOps]

I would define American patriotism as recognizing and honoring our constitution as the supreme law of the land, and all laws that fit within the framework of that constitution. That it not only defines the limits of government, but recognizes and protects our rights. A patriot is someone who exercises their rights in a respectful manner, with no ill-intentions towards others, respecting others, to achieve their happiness. And being a productive part of society to the best of their abilities.

I also believe part of being a patriot is seeing the good in your country rather than just the bad. Our differing ideal may take us in a direction we don’t want to go, but I don’t think that will ever take away from me the feeling I get being in this country; a feeling I have never felt in any other country. That feeling of how our towns and cities look. How our houses are built. How our conveniences are so accessible. The 4th of July. Decorating houses during Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas. Kids dressing up for Halloween and trick-or-treating. Watching football and baseball. Cookouts. But I think what better defines that feeling I get is our kind of freedom that doesn’t exist anywhere in this world.

 

[SamSpade]

Does this mean you have to be proud of your president, or any government official?
Does it mean you have to love every single bitty thing about your country?

I am proud to be an American, to own the history and culture and all that goes with it.
By and large, I have great faith in the American people - their compassion, their forgiveness, their charity and their bravery.
I love our collective sense of humor. I love how we don't give up - because we believe you can make mistakes and learn from them.
I love how - generally - we judge each other on merit. Treat me well, and I'll treat you well.
I don't have the space to comment on everything I love about this country.
I think this nation has probably more NATURAL beauty than I am likely to see anywhere else and I've been to about half of it.

That by no means suggests I love everything in its pop culture - every leader - every person.
I love my family too, but it doesn't mean I approve of every action they take. When my brother is being an ass, I don't defend him for being so.
But I usually forgive him because he's family.

I've only traveled abroad to a handful of places - while I could survive in all of them, I'd still rather be here.

 

[SamSpade]

I've said before, here and elsewhere - although not in a while - that while being Japanese or Russian or Ethiopian or Irish or Italian - IS a matter of blood, of genes -
being an American is an idea. You are Chinese - by blood. You are American by choice (or birth, for many).

There are of course exceptions, but - people identify by so many nations by their genes, because that's how the nation IS.
Despite immigration, people are German, people are Greek, people are Swedish, Indian, Vietnamese - by blood.

Here - and true, elsewhere in the Americas - you may have an ethnic lineage you keep, but - America is an idea.

 

[Hijinx]

I am proud to be an American, to own the history and culture and all that goes with it.
By and large, I have great faith in the American people - their compassion, their forgiveness, their charity and their bravery.
I love our collective sense of humor. I love how we don't give up - because we believe you can make mistakes and learn from them.
I love how - generally - we judge each other on merit. Treat me well, and I'll treat you well.
I don't have the space to comment on everything I love about this country.
I think this nation has probably more NATURAL beauty than I am likely to see anywhere else and I've been to about half of it.

That by no means suggests I love everything in its pop culture - every leader - every person.
I love my family too, but it doesn't mean I approve of every action they take. When my brother is being an ass, I don't defend him for being so.
But I usually forgive him because he's family.

I've only traveled abroad to a handful of places - while I could survive in all of them, I'd still rather be here.

I used to have faith in the American people but then along came the brain washing in America's places of higher learning.
The safe rooms for children who are supposed to be becoming adults.
The people who want to elect the most corrupt woman ever to run for office.
The BLM people who merely want to riot and care nothing about those killed every day in their neighborhoods.
The sellout Of justice Roberts.
The way America is spending a fortune on the Muslims while screwing over veterans.

To be honest, I don't see much of a future for America.

 

[vraiblonde]

I've said before, here and elsewhere - although not in a while - that while being Japanese or Russian or Ethiopian or Irish or Italian - IS a matter of blood, of genes -
being an American is an idea. You are Chinese - by blood. You are American by choice (or birth, for many).

There are of course exceptions, but - people identify by so many nations by their genes, because that's how the nation IS.
Despite immigration, people are German, people are Greek, people are Swedish, Indian, Vietnamese - by blood.

Here - and true, elsewhere in the Americas - you may have an ethnic lineage you keep, but - America is an idea.

 

[PsyOps]

To be honest, I don't see much of a future for America.

Are you going to crash and burn with it, or flee to another country?

 

[tommyjo]

I used to have faith in the American people but then along came the brain washing in America's places of higher learning.
The safe rooms for children who are supposed to be becoming adults.
The people who want to elect the most corrupt woman ever to run for office.
The BLM people who merely want to riot and care nothing about those killed every day in their neighborhoods.
The sellout Of justice Roberts.
The way America is spending a fortune on the Muslims while screwing over veterans.

To be honest, I don't see much of a future for America.

Since Vrai doesn't seem to understand the concept of patriotism...maybe she should view Hijinx post...for this is the antithesis of patriotism. Maybe you can better understand what patriotism is be understanding what it is not.

This is well said:

Here - and true, elsewhere in the Americas - you may have an ethnic lineage you keep, but - America is an idea.

How can you understand what patriotism is in the United States of America when you have no understanding of what the idea and ideals of this country are all about?

 

[Bann]

Are you going to crash and burn with it, or flee to another country?

We're thinking Wyoming. Real America.

 

[Hijinx]

Are you going to crash and burn with it, or flee to another country?

I will go down with the ship.Fighting all the way.

 

[Hijinx]

Since Vrai doesn't seem to understand the concept of patriotism...maybe she should view Hijinx post...for this is the antithesis of patriotism. Maybe you can better understand what patriotism is be understanding what it is not.

This is well said:

How can you understand what patriotism is in the United States of America when you have no understanding of what the idea and ideals of this country are all about?

Hey did anyone ever tell you that you are full of crap? Let me be the first
Maybe you would like to explain why you like all of the crazy things I mentioned that are wrong here.

 

[littlelady]

I will go down with the ship.Fighting all the way.

 

[littlelady]

Since Vrai doesn't seem to understand the concept of patriotism...maybe she should view Hijinx post...for this is the antithesis of patriotism. Maybe you can better understand what patriotism is be understanding what it is not.

This is well said:

How can you understand what patriotism is in the United States of America when you have no understanding of what the idea and ideals of this country are all about?

You are one messed up American. I don't think you realize that. Ideals, and all. Your ideals are not American. JMO.

 

[Hijinx]

You are one messed up American. I don't think you realize that. Ideals, and all. Your ideals are not American. JMO.

She is so wrapped up in Hillary Clinton that her mids has slipped all bounds.
Crazy as a loon.

 

[LC_Sulla]

I'm kind of blathering about here, but Steppinthrax's posts in another thread, and the responses to him, got me thinking about what it means to be conservative, or liberal, or patriotic.

Hi, Vrai. That was a good post. I would just say that conservative and liberal are different from patriotic. Whether is was your intention or not, I just want put out there, in my opinion, that both liberals and conservative can be patriotic.

Here's another question that occurred to me:

Can you be patriotic and wrong?

 

[vraiblonde]

Hi, Vrai. That was a good post. I would just say that conservative and liberal are different from patriotic. Whether is was your intention or not, I just want put out there, in my opinion, that both liberals and conservative can be patriotic.

Agree, that's why I separated them. I've always thought that liberalism has a place in our society. Not Socialism, which is something else entirely, but true liberalism like back in the good old days before the Socialists stole the label and bastardized it. I think perfect patriotism would include both conservative and liberal ideals, because both concerns have elements of what we love about our country.

Can you be patriotic and wrong?

Yes, but you'll never convince a self-described "patriot" that they are wrong. A "patriot" is someone who loves their country and is proud of it, no more, no less. If you engage in wrongdoing out of "love for your country", you are still wrong.

Unless I misunderstood your question.

 

[This_person]

Can you be patriotic and wrong?

 

[This_person]

Yes, but you'll never convince a self-described "patriot" that they are wrong. A "patriot" is someone who loves their country and is proud of it, no more, no less. If you engage in wrongdoing out of "love for your country", you are still wrong.

Fair and balanced:

 

[This_person]

One would think that not allowing government to control and regulate marriage would be a completely conservative stance, but no. It's a liberal/progressive stance and conservatives are against it.

To be fair, conservatives want to maintain it in the hands of the state, not the federal (except those few who want a constitutional amendment), and liberals want to use government regulation to control social issues.

The right answer seems to be to get government out of the business completely. And, I say that as a conservative.

You'd think the Left would be against Muslim immigration and making laws to accommodate them because of the Muslim stance against gays, women, abortion, etc. But nope, liberals/progressives lead the outcry when it is suggested that we vet Muslim immigrants or curtail their entry in any way.

What is patriotism, anyway? Wiki sez:

Patriotism is an emotional attachment to a nation which an individual recognizes as their homeland. This attachment, also known as national feeling or national pride, can be viewed in terms of different features relating to one's own nation, including ethnic, cultural, political or historical aspects.

So national pride...are you proud of your country? Then you're patriotic. Ashamed of your country? Then you are not patriotic.

Does this mean you have to be proud of your president, or any government official?
Does it mean you have to love every single bitty thing about your country?

I think you are conflating "country" and "government". This is why so many conservatives and liberals alike say they love their country but fear their government.

I think we can all - conservative and liberal alike - look at our history and point to things that we're proud of and things that are shameful. Most of us agree that slavery was shameful. Can we also agree that fighting a war to end slavery and make black Americans full citizens is something to be proud of?

I'm kind of blathering about here, but Steppinthrax's posts in another thread, and the responses to him, got me thinking about what it means to be conservative, or liberal, or patriotic.

In my personal opinion, political views and patriotic views are not connected in any way. With some exceptions, I'm generally very proud of Americans, and the diverse landscape of the country, and the inclusive way Americans treat one another over all, and the charitable way we treat people, and the overwhelming work ethic of the vast majority of Americans, and.....nothing that has a single thing to do with government or political philosophy.

 

[PsyOps]

Yes, but you'll never convince a self-described "patriot" that they are wrong. A "patriot" is someone who loves their country and is proud of it, no more, no less. If you engage in wrongdoing out of "love for your country", you are still wrong.

And a good example of that is Obama and Clinton... They love this country, they just don't like the constitutional system that governs this country; they aim to 'fundamentally' change it. And they aim to change it through deception; never, EVER able to tell us the truth about their intentions.

I would add, that a patriot is some who loves this country as it was intended to be by its founders. I agree nations change over time, adapting to social changes. But this country was founded on the ideal of liberty, and that we are born with those liberties, and that government is mandated to protect that. Anyone that supports having our liberties stripped away by force of government, even in the name of loving their country, is unpatriotic.