Gov. Hogan Announces $765 Million for New Harry W. Nice Memorial Bridge

[newsBot]

This just in from the somd.com Headline News:

Title: Gov. Hogan Announces $765 Million for New Harry W. Nice Memorial Bridge

Date: 11-22-2016 03:01 PM

Summary: Hogan on Monday announced $765 million in funding for construction of a new Potomac River crossing from Charles County, Md., to King George County, Va.

Click here for the full story...

 

[stgislander]

I'm not sure how he's going to get around the new law the Dems overrode his veto on, but

 

[GURPS]

Nice

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Nice

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Simply put, Marylanders deserve better than the daily congestion caused by the current bridge and with the construction of this new bridge, they will finally get it."

Hopefully the other bridge of which we do not speak is next.

 

[GURPS]

Hopefully the other bridge of which we do not speak is next.

I was talking to a co-worker today, he said it was .... :shrug:

 

[Gilligan]

Major dollars involved in replacing both of "our" obsolete and inadequate bridges. Going to be interesting to see how this proceeds.

I've got a dog in this fight too...a property I manage is in line to receive at least a portion of the dredge spoil from the Nice project.

 

[officeguy]

The backups and congestion through Waldorf and La Plata will be epic !

 

[TimTheToolMan]

That has been my concern for replacement of the Nice Bridge. Look at the backups at the 301 & 6 light north bound any given Sunday evening during the summer travel season. Increasing the capacity of the Nice Bridge will only worsen those areas. While the Nice Bridge has long been in need of replacement, it will also require expansion of 301 through La Plata and Waldorf.

Also, one other question about the new Nice Bridge, every design I have seen calls for Bicycle/Pedestrian lanes to be incorporated in the new bridge. Assuming that the new bridge will continue to be a toll bridge, is the State planning on charging tolls for bicycles/pedestrians for using the bridge as they do other vehicles? I have not heard any discussion on that.

 

[officeguy]

That has been my concern for replacement of the Nice Bridge. Look at the backups at the 301 & 6 light north bound any given Sunday evening during the summer travel season. Increasing the capacity of the Nice Bridge will only worsen those areas. While the Nice Bridge has long been in need of replacement, it will also require expansion of 301 through La Plata and Waldorf.

MD never thinks that far ahead. You are completely right, at this time, the bridge is what throttles the holiday traffic on 301. With everyone using waze and other real time traffic apps, the moment 95 turns into a 90 mile parking lot, everyone gets sent down 301 from Baltimore.

If the bridge opens in 2023 (with the design-build process, I am actually optimistic that that will happen), by 2025 we will be begging for upgrades on 301. Now, with the seemingly hundreds of lights, crossovers and curb cuts on 301, that is going to be a another billion dollar project. Service roads, interchanges, the whole bit. The other option would be to upgrade the Rosewick, St Charles Pkwy, Mattawoman-Beantown corridor but I am sure the St Charles companies and their paid lackeys in the general assembly would shut that down.

Also, one other question about the new Nice Bridge, every design I have seen calls for Bicycle/Pedestrian lanes to be incorporated in the new bridge. Assuming that the new bridge will continue to be a toll bridge, is the State planning on charging tolls for bicycles/pedestrians for using the bridge as they do other vehicles? I have not heard any discussion on that.

Often pedestrians and bicyclists are free on tollbridges.

Giant waste of money imnho to add a bike path. Except for a handful of long distance bicyclists, nobody is going to use that thing. It would be cheaper to send an Uber for anyone who wants to cross the bridge than to build that bike path.


What would make sense as part of the bridge project would be a rail track to extend the CSX Pope Creek subdivision to Virginia where it can hook up with the CSX line near Bowling Green. This would give freight rail a way to bypass DC.

I have been trying to find the prelim designs. Is this going to be another high-bridge or are they planning to do a hybrid like the Wilson Bridge which is high enough for anything but tall ships ( and has a lift span).

 

[GURPS]

..... every design I have seen calls for Bicycle/Pedestrian lanes to be incorporated in the new bridge.

that seems to be some damn greenie requirement for any Roads or bridges

Giant waste of money imnho to add a bike path. Except for a handful of long distance bicyclists, nobody is going to use that thing.

the same thing was done on the Woodrow Wilson Bridge
..... IMHO no one is walking from Alexandria to National Harbor - frankly :shrug: why
.... but you do see the occasional runner / biker from MD on the bridge, but I think they are going to the VA side and back ....

 

[glhs837]

My question is how did the get around changing the height. Assuming that the current one was built that high for a reason, is it like Solomons, where those size ships simply don't go there anymore?

 

[TimTheToolMan]

Giant waste of money imnho to add a bike path. Except for a handful of long distance bicyclists, nobody is going to use that thing. It would be cheaper to send an Uber for anyone who wants to cross the bridge than to build that bike path.

I was thinking along the same lines. The addition of bike/pedestrian lanes is added cost onto the bridge project, which is already expensive enough. To me, it would seem that bicyclists and/or pedestrians should be charged a toll as are other vehicles. It's sad that now, when I tow one of my trailers across that bridge, I am one axle shy of what a tractor trailer pays in tolls. With a tandem axle trailer, I am paying $18.00 to cross that bridge, yet my 10,000 pound trailer cannot cause anywhere near the wear and tear on that structure that an 80,000 pound tractor trailer can do.

 

[officeguy]

My question is how did the get around changing the height. Assuming that the current one was built that high for a reason, is it like Solomons, where those size ships simply don't go there anymore?

They don't. The Wilson bridge opens once a year for the coast guard required test opening. Based on the presentation to the board, the plan is to reduce the clearance from 135ft to 106ft. The only commercial vessels I have ever seen on the river are barges, and those are fine either way. Occasionally there are tall ships into Alexandria or DC, taking off 30ft of clearance will probably put a crimp into that. But then, why should MD spend 50mil extra just for that.

 

[officeguy]

I was thinking along the same lines. The addition of bike/pedestrian lanes is added cost onto the bridge project, which is already expensive enough.

According to the prelim estimates from MDTA, adding the the bike path costs between 68 and 73mil in 2023 dollars.

This is so nuts. 70mil would buy a snazzy controlled access buslane down the middle of Rt 5 from the beltway to Brandywine.

Now, if that ped/bike lane was capable of handling an ambulance or road-rescue truck, I could see that it is worth spending that kind of money as a safety measure to get help in and out in a gridlock situation. But that's not what this is going to do (unless this is a funding scam and they are building the 'bike path' with the sole intent of turning it into a roadway 10 years later).

 

[3CATSAILOR]

Nice

Yep Nice..... "bridge".

 

[3CATSAILOR]

By the time they build the replacement bridge, it will be out of date and will need to be wider.

 

[officeguy]

By the time they build the replacement bridge, it will be out of date and will need to be wider.

I am actually optimistic that this will happen on schedule with the new bridge done by 2020. It is going to be a 'design build' contract where the general contractor is just told we need

73ft bridge deck
XYZ load rating
106.5ft clearance
250ft channel width
it needs to go from here to here

and it needs to be done on x/x/2021. If you are done one day early, you get 15mil extra, you are one day late, you get 15mil less.



That's what they did when the bridge in Minneapolis collapsed. It took 13 months from the collapse until the new bridge was opened. The contractor finished 10 days early and had a big payday. With the design-build process, you eliminate many of the sources of delays that happen if the design authority is the state transportation department. MN-DOT is notorious for its long delay in other projects. They keep farting around with extra 'studies' and 'stakeholder input meetings' until whatever funding they had evaporates. By going design-build, it's a one and done kind of deal. The midlevel buerocrats hate design-build because it leaves many decisions up to the contractor and it cuts out the ability for them to hand contracts to their buddies.