Palin slams Trump Carrier deal as 'crony capitalism'

Tito

Donkey Smell
Sarah Palin is criticizing President-elect Donald Trump’s deal with Carrier, even as she is reportedly under consideration to serve as Trump's secretary of Veterans Affairs.

In a op-ed in Young Conservatives published Friday, the former Alaska governor first expresses excitement for the Carrier employees whose jobs are staying in Indiana.

“What a relief for hundreds of workers,” she wrote. “Merry Christmas Indiana!”

But she goes onto to blast the deal as “crony capitalism" and an example of the "hallmark of corruption" and "socialism."

“When government steps in arbitrarily with individual subsidies, favoring one business over others, it sets inconsistent, unfair, illogical precedent,” Palin wrote. “Then, special interests creep in and manipulate markets. Republicans oppose this, remember?”

“Instead, we support competition on a level playing field, remember? Because we know special interest crony capitalism is on big fail.”

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/308575-palin-slams-crony-capitalism-after-trump-seals-carrier-deal
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Wow. Look at Sarah being all principle-y and sh1t!

How the #### are her detractors in the media gonna explain this?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Since when are conservatives against tax breaks? :confused:

Since when are we against US companies producing their product in the US? We've been bitching about outsourcing to foreign countries forever, now we want to bitch about keeping those jobs at home? :confused:

Here's the thing about "corporate bailouts":

Yeah, when we hemorrhage money at fat cat bankers who turn around and use it to fly their corporate officers to the islands for a lavish party, that's bull####. But when it's manufacturing jobs in middle America, why on earth wouldn't we encourage them to keep those jobs in the US? The money is a wash - we can either give Carrier a tax break to stay in Indiana, or we can pay the unemployment and welfare benefits for the workers who no longer have jobs. Workers are tax payers; nonworkers are not only not taxpayers, but they *take* from the coffers.

I thought the plan right from the start of Trump's odyssey was to give incentives to manufacturing companies to keep jobs in the US instead of moving production to other countries? I thought he was clear about this right in the beginning? Build the wall, encourage US manufacturing, make America great again. What did people think that meant?
 

tommyjo

New Member
Since when are conservatives against tax breaks? :confused:

Since when are we against US companies producing their product in the US? We've been bitching about outsourcing to foreign countries forever, now we want to bitch about keeping those jobs at home? :confused:

You, and most on here, really need to expand your ability to think...your confusion exists because you are too narrow minded. The actions of a President do not occur in a vacuum. Not at a manufacturing plant in Indiana or on a phone call with the President of Taiwan. Try reading these:

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...-picking-losers-isn-t-great-industrial-policy

http://larrysummers.com/2016/12/02/trumps-carrier-deal-ad-hoc-deal-capitalism/


Here's the thing about "corporate bailouts":

Yeah, when we hemorrhage money at fat cat bankers who turn around and use it to fly their corporate officers to the islands for a lavish party, that's bull####. But when it's manufacturing jobs in middle America, why on earth wouldn't we encourage them to keep those jobs in the US? The money is a wash - we can either give Carrier a tax break to stay in Indiana, or we can pay the unemployment and welfare benefits for the workers who no longer have jobs. Workers are tax payers; nonworkers are not only not taxpayers, but they *take* from the coffers.

The comments on the bank bailouts are just your typical stupidity and show the typical lack of knowledge.

Since you aren't paying attention, there are still between 1000-1300 jobs leaving. The tax breaks given to the company will offset the taxes collected from the employees. The net to the state of Indiana is still negative. (This is not disrespecting those who are keeping their jobs...this is great news for them! This is pointing out the silliness of your points.)

I thought the plan right from the start of Trump's odyssey was to give incentives to manufacturing companies to keep jobs in the US instead of moving production to other countries? I thought he was clear about this right in the beginning? Build the wall, encourage US manufacturing, make America great again. What did people think that meant?

Here again you obviously weren't paying attention to anything Mr. Trump said during his campaign. He is on record on multiple occasions proclaiming that tax breaks and incentives are stupid policies and he would never, ever use them. He would instead punish companies who move jobs overseas thru tariffs and other penalties.

You are right in that he was very clear in what he would do. What he actually did was the exact opposite.

You and those like you are deaf dumb and blind if you think the US is going to have some major resurgence of manufacturing jobs. We produce more now than we ever have...by factors well exceeding the inflation rate. Companies do this with machines now...not people. Why? Because American consumers want cheap...above all else you want cheap. Everything you buy on the internet puts your neighbors out of work. Then you complain about the lack of service. You buy foreign made goods because they are cheap then b!tch about the lack of US manufacturing jobs.

You can't have it both ways.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
You, and most on here, really need to expand your ability to think...your confusion exists because you are too narrow minded.


The comments on the bank bailouts are just your typical stupidity and show the typical lack of knowledge.

Since you aren't paying attention, ... This is pointing out the silliness of your points.)



Here again you obviously weren't paying attention

You and those like you are deaf dumb and blind

You can't have it both ways.

Don't hold anything back, sugar britches..let 'er know what you really think. :razz:
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Since you aren't paying attention, there are still between 1000-1300 jobs leaving. The tax breaks given to the company will offset the taxes collected from the employees. The net to the state of Indiana is still negative. (This is not disrespecting those who are keeping their jobs...this is great news for them! This is pointing out the silliness of your points.)

Gonna have to call you on the math for that, because it sure doesn't look that way to me. State and local taxes alone for a household income of $60k beat the 750 per year the state is giving back to Carrier. And they only pay the 7 mil for 10 years. And it doesn't even factor in the local economy of a thousand good paying jobs.

Yeah, half the jobs are still leaving. Good on you to see a glass half full as half empty. I expect nothing less.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Crony Capitalism


The term crony capitalism refers to forms of capitalism in which leading businessmen enjoy close personal relationships with key politicians. Crony capitalism is often associated with corruption and many commentators have seen it as a major obstacle to Third World development. Commentators often contrast crony capitalism with highly idealized neoclassical models of capitalism. In actuality, however, significant linkages between political elites and business classes can be found in almost all capitalist regimes, past and present, and the real task is to identify the variety of ways in which such linkages either facilitate or hinder economic development.

In many underdeveloped countries crony capitalism may be perceived both as corrupt and as antinational. Crony capitalists often belong to ethnic minority groups whose activities have been historically concentrated within the business or financial sector and who in some cases had enjoyed protection under earlier colonial regimes. As in the cases of the Lebanese in Sierra Leone, Indians in Kenya, and the Chinese throughout Southeast Asia, perceived government favoritism toward entrepreneurial minorities may lead to fierce ethnic conflicts and the shattering of polities.

Crony capitalism may result in corruption. But corruption’s effects on economic development need not necessarily be lethal and corruption is certainly not unique to modern Third World nations. While the World Bank and the U.S. government have intervened to make aid conditional on struggles against corruption, relatively little attention has been given to historical studies of the effects of corruption on economic development. American civic life in the era of the Second Industrial Revolution between 1870 and 1914 was immensely corrupt, though the effect of this corruption on U.S. economic growth remains largely unexplored. In The Shame of the Cities (1902) the social reformer Lincoln Steffens documented many cases of corrupt ties between businessmen and politicians during the era of the so-called Robber Barons. Steffens condemned the “shamelessness” of municipal politics in St. Louis, a politics characterized by “government of the people, by the rogues and for the rich.” Recent examples of cronyism show that the spirit of the Robber Barons continues: In 2001 the Enron case revealed collusion between politicians and corporate executives, while 2006 saw the conviction of the lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who had served as an intermediary between businessmen and key congressmen.



I just do not see it ....
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Sarah Palin is criticizing President-elect Donald Trump’s deal with Carrier, even as she is reportedly under consideration to serve as Trump's secretary of Veterans Affairs.

In a op-ed in Young Conservatives published Friday, the former Alaska governor first expresses excitement for the Carrier employees whose jobs are staying in Indiana.

“What a relief for hundreds of workers,” she wrote. “Merry Christmas Indiana!”

But she goes onto to blast the deal as “crony capitalism" and an example of the "hallmark of corruption" and "socialism."

“When government steps in arbitrarily with individual subsidies, favoring one business over others, it sets inconsistent, unfair, illogical precedent,” Palin wrote. “Then, special interests creep in and manipulate markets. Republicans oppose this, remember?”

“Instead, we support competition on a level playing field, remember? Because we know special interest crony capitalism is on big fail.”

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/308575-palin-slams-crony-capitalism-after-trump-seals-carrier-deal

Tito,

Does this imply you are now interested and respectful of what Gov Palin has to say?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Gonna have to call you on the math for that, because it sure doesn't look that way to me. State and local taxes alone for a household income of $60k beat the 750 per year the state is giving back to Carrier. And they only pay the 7 mil for 10 years. And it doesn't even factor in the local economy of a thousand good paying jobs.

Yeah, half the jobs are still leaving. Good on you to see a glass half full as half empty. I expect nothing less.

That's important to consider and, assuming 5% state and local, we're talking about a trade of 750k cut for 3 mil in, a pretty good deal on that basis alone. I'd be interested if someone would add how much carrier expects to be paying their new help as well as the costs of moving and a new factory.

Anyone know, roughly, what the wage comparison is?
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
That's important to consider and, assuming 5% state and local, we're talking about a trade of 750k cut for 3 mil in, a pretty good deal on that basis alone. I'd be interested if someone would add how much carrier expects to be paying their new help as well as the costs of moving and a new factory.

Anyone know, roughly, what the wage comparison is?

I think it's less wage comparison than the thought of grossly-inflated import taxes on their products.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
I think it's less wage comparison than the thought of grossly-inflated import taxes on their products.

They're not naive enough to think Trump is actually stupid enough to believe in, let alone able to impose, even remotely prohibitive tariffs. Or, maybe they are? In any event, they got paid to leave some jobs and are still ending a majority.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
They're not naive enough to think Trump is actually stupid enough to believe in, let alone able to impose, even remotely prohibitive tariffs. Or, maybe they are? In any event, they got paid to leave some jobs and are still ending a majority.

He said he is, and I think it would be worth our while.

But, I thought they were moving 700 and maintaining 1,000. The majority seem to be staying.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
So here is the mountain : manufacturing in Mexico pays about 2.25 an hour.

So carrier is comparing 5k a year to 60. And now you know why people are willing to come here from there for 8.
Wouldn't you think about sneaking into the US from there for 10 times your current pay?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I just do not see it ....

Here's the thing: when you get to be in a certain position, you know people. Lots of people. Business and politics, these guys all know each other, whether on a national level or local. There has never been a president ever who didn't know highly placed business people. It's called networking, and every successful person does it.

Donald Trump knows EVERYBODY. He has ties to influential people from every section of our society. So why wouldn't he use those ties to his benefit, and ours? I thought that's part of why we elected him? If he finds out that the boss of XYZ Corp is closing down their US operation and sending those jobs to Mexico, why wouldn't he give him a call and see if he can't keep those jobs here? Why wouldn't he use his connections?

The only people who bitch and complain about "cronyism" and "the good old boy network" are people who are too dumb or lazy to make connections themselves.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
So here is the mountain : manufacturing in Mexico pays about 2.25 an hour.

So carrier is comparing 5k a year to 60. And now you know why people are willing to come here from there for 8.
Wouldn't you think about sneaking into the US from there for 10 times your current pay?

Why not just steal other people's money in Mexico? I mean, if you're going to be dishonest and do illegal things, that would be a lot faster and easier, wouldn't it?
 
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