Shine the light, watch them run (First local RLC light timing issue)

[glhs837]

http://www.mddriversalliance.org/2016/12/montgomery-county-shuts-off-red-light.html

Cliff notes:

1. Motorist gets a RLC ticket for a left on red. Noticed the citation shows the yellow timing is 2.9 seconds, below the minimum recommended 3.0 by the SHA.

2. County says, "Yeah, So?" and says it's okay because while the travel lanes are faster, the average speed for the left turn lane is 27mph, and so the minimum doesn't apply.

3. Press gets ahold of it, points on that the SHA has actually gone and updated minimum recommended yellows to 3.5 seconds.

4. County says it still havsn't done anything wrong, but shuts down that camera anyway.

So, since this started, I said we hadn't seen any timing shenanigans. Well, here they come. Given that an increase in yellows has been shown to reduce incidence of not just running but all crashes, unlike RLCs which might reduce T-bones but WILL increase rear end collisions, it seems a no-brainer that any organization truly committed to safety would run the maximum yellow, but not here, and I suspect not in a lot of places. I'll bet that pretty soon that yellow indicator block will go blank in citizen mailed tickets.

 

[John Z]

I completely agree!

 

[Peepaw95]

http://www.mddriversalliance.org/2016/12/montgomery-county-shuts-off-red-light.html

Cliff notes:

1. Motorist gets a RLC ticket for a left on red. Noticed the citation shows the yellow timing is 2.9 seconds, below the minimum recommended 3.0 by the SHA.

2. County says, "Yeah, So?" and says it's okay because while the travel lanes are faster, the average speed for the left turn lane is 27mph, and so the minimum doesn't apply.

3. Press gets ahold of it, points on that the SHA has actually gone and updated minimum recommended yellows to 3.5 seconds.

4. County says it still havsn't done anything wrong, but shuts down that camera anyway.

So, since this started, I said we hadn't seen any timing shenanigans. Well, here they come. Given that an increase in yellows has been shown to reduce incidence of not just running but all crashes, unlike RLCs which might reduce T-bones but WILL increase rear end collisions, it seems a no-brainer that any organization truly committed to safety would run the maximum yellow, but not here, and I suspect not in a lot of places. I'll bet that pretty soon that yellow indicator block will go blank in citizen mailed tickets.

I noticed that all your timing numbers were recommended. Does that mean they are not a REQUIRED time? Also, I find it hard to believe any driver can tell the difference between 3 sec. and 2.9 sec. I also believe a rear end collision is a lot less dangerous than a "T" bone. And once people get used to putting their foot on the brake when they see a yellow light rather than on the accelerator, there will be less rear end collisions also.

 

[glhs837]

I noticed that all your timing numbers were recommended. Does that mean they are not a REQUIRED time? Also, I find it hard to believe any driver can tell the difference between 3 sec. and 2.9 sec. I also believe a rear end collision is a lot less dangerous than a "T" bone. And once people get used to putting their foot on the brake when they see a yellow light rather than on the accelerator, there will be less rear end collisions also.

Even the NHTSA only recommends light timing. Hard to require when you legally cannot. And no, virtually nobody could tell that difference. I'm not claiming that that timing difference was responsible for her running that red. But the difference between 3 and 3.5 is pretty big, actually. And if you drop the yellow times, you actually increase the amount of people running the red, so why would you play a minimum game? What possible benefit is there to that?

And yes, rear end collisions are less damaging, to both people and vehicles. How many would you trade for one T-bone? What is the acceptable ratio? Because it's not a simple one for one, you don't trade one T-bone for one rear end. What if it's say 5 rear in collisions for one T-bone? One last point, generally speaking, the folks who run the yellow late are usually not the ones causing crashes, since most lights have an overlap time when all are red before giving green to the other lanes. Here on Rt 235, it's a full second. So people causing T-bones are not the yellow go-no/go folks. Its the ones so checked out or so uncaring they are just flat blowing through a light that's been a red a while.