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Thread: America's love of gas guzzlers

  1. #11
    and where is this Electric Going To Come From ?
    AFAIK - most of the electric still comes Coal Power Plants

    /QUOTE]

    The efficiency of electric cars far exceed any petroleum combustion engine, about 38% efficiency with combustion is about as good as it gets. With even burning coal or #6 fuel oil to recharge commuters autos we would be far ahead from the inefficient autos and trucks we drive now.
    Cost per driven mile with electric is far less than a combustion driven auto / truck.
    Now granted for some uses electric just will not work, but to shift to hydrogen or Compressed Natural Gas would cure that.
    Proud to be a cereal comma user.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    Why "should" it be electric? Gasoline provides a great flexibility, power, etc., etc.

    Have you seen what it takes to dispose, safely, of lead-acid batteries? Even the Tesla batteries? If one is looking to be a good steward of the environment, electric vehicles are the antithesis of a good idea.
    Lead acid batterys are virtually 100% recycled for decades now,
    In the last few years most modern battery's are being recycled except for today's battery cells used in electric cars, trucks but soon they will learn how to recycle them also.
    The big killer with any combustion is you just can't make it more efficient than 38% + - very little, that's as good as it gets. It doesn't matter if it super charged, turbo, diesel, gas, ethanol, propane, CNG or whatever.
    Modern electric cars are 68 to 72% efficient.
    And the question about burning coal, you know that the 3 coal burners in Maryland run as efficient as clean coal can run with today's technology, the scrubbers that Mirant installed 5 or 6 years ago do a amazing job cleaning the air. Nothing comes out of the old smokestacks any longer, just steam more or less from the scrubber stacks.
    Last edited by black dog; 01-22-2017 at 11:06 PM.
    Proud to be a cereal comma user.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by black dog View Post
    but to shift to hydrogen or Compressed Natural Gas would cure that.
    The problem with CNG is the storage volume and weight involved. More difficult a problem than propane. That said, that' the "hot ticket" now for ships and even a couple large high-speed passenger ferries. Those "vehicles" that are are large enough to carry the fuel and can spare the space and weight that entails. We're involved in a high-speed ferry design that would use CNG to fuel gas turbines, for passenger/care service along the coast of British Columbia.
    You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. -Frank Zappa

  4. #14
    I agree, I'm just saying it's a much better fuel than what we have been using the last 100+ years. For local / commuting we should be burning other fuels that are cleaner in many ways and just as available.
    I had a CNG stove / oven on my sailboat in 91, at that time there was only maybe 3 marinas that could refill my tanks on the east coast. So I carried 3 thirty pounders, it's silly stupid that the marine industry still tends to use a heavier than air gas in a boat when better lighter than air gas is available. I'm sure you see it all the time.
    Proud to be a cereal comma user.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    What kind of driving I've done over the years I can't have a car that stops after 100 miles and has to sit for eight hours to charge back up again.
    Good thing we already have electric cars that can go 300 miles on a charge and recover 80 percent of that charge in 20 minutes at a charging station (5 minutes for 100 miles, the charge rate is not linear).

    The main issue is cost, and availability of power. If the cost were reasonable I would get one as a second car for around town (maybe a two year old used Bolt will be priced right).

    I actually like the plug-in Hybrid model for now. Volt was good, though it's performance once the battery has drained is not great (~38MPG I think). The new Prius Prime can supposedly go around 22 miles on electric, and then gets 53/55 city/hwy when in hybrid mode. Slightly cheaper than a regular Prius do to better tax incentives, but still too expensive in my opinion. I would have to drive a lot of miles to make up that extra 5k (9k unsubsidized) premium from a similar class traditional gasoline vehicle.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by black dog View Post
    I believe we should have been commuting from the suburbs to the city's in electric cars from the middle 70's forward.
    I went to high school with a guy whose father owned an early electric car company in Maryland. He drove one of the few cars to school every day.
    I got to ride in it - once.

    The first thing anyone would have noticed - certainly in the 70's - was as it moved across the school parking lot, I wasn't sure we weren't ROLLING - because it barely made a sound. "'Course not! It's 'lectric" I was told.

    But I also noticed how VERY cheaply it was made - most of the dash's devices were broken - the speedo he guessed at, because the cover was gone along with the needle. I wanted to roll down the window, so we pulled over and PULLED THE PLASTIC THING OUT. A small gust of wind and we got pushed to the center of the road - it was then I fully realized what I'd guessed getting into it - this thing doesn't weigh hardly anything.

    It had no typical car features. No heat. No real pick up at all. Not even a radio. I don't even remember if it had wipers. And it barely had room for two. It had the feel of a lawnmower with a roof.

    And it cost close to the cost of a regular car. To my knowledge, his dad's company disappeared. The technology wasn't there in the 70's and it's still not there to my satisfaction NOW. The only reason I would ever own an electric car is if I was an empty-nester and never had to drive more than 10-15 miles at a time.
    Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong". Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  7. #17
    Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong". Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    I went to high school with a guy whose father owned an early electric car company in Maryland. He drove one of the few cars to school every day.
    I got to ride in it - once.

    The first thing anyone would have noticed - certainly in the 70's - was as it moved across the school parking lot, I wasn't sure we weren't ROLLING - because it barely made a sound. "'Course not! It's 'lectric" I was told.

    But I also noticed how VERY cheaply it was made - most of the dash's devices were broken - the speedo he guessed at, because the cover was gone along with the needle. I wanted to roll down the window, so we pulled over and PULLED THE PLASTIC THING OUT. A small gust of wind and we got pushed to the center of the road - it was then I fully realized what I'd guessed getting into it - this thing doesn't weigh hardly anything.

    It had no typical car features. No heat. No real pick up at all. Not even a radio. I don't even remember if it had wipers. And it barely had room for two. It had the feel of a lawnmower with a roof.

    And it cost close to the cost of a regular car. To my knowledge, his dad's company disappeared. The technology wasn't there in the 70's and it's still not there to my satisfaction NOW. The only reason I would ever own an electric car is if I was an empty-nester and never had to drive more than 10-15 miles at a time.
    I understand everything you are saying, I'm a diesel burner of the first degree, but for the average car owner that commutes less that 75 miles one way. It's the Shizzle, the true cost per mile plumets with electric cars. Are you going to drive one on vacation to Florida? Nope, but total electric cars are not designed for that. But they will be. A electric car is all I really need for most of my driving, but like most Americans I drive a 400+ CI diesel because I can. I love hearing it go bong bong bong when it's running. My neighbors hate hearing it start in the winter because it's really loud and sounds like a huge bucket of bolts until it warms up.
    But I am say if diesel had stayed at $ 4.75 a gallon it would have been parked or sold.
    Proud to be a cereal comma user.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by black dog View Post
    I understand everything you are saying, I'm a diesel burner of the first degree, but for the average car owner that commutes less that 75 miles one way.
    It's not commuting that consumes my miles - it's everything else. If I spend all my time hauling kids around, running errands and such, I can't realistically put an 8 hour charge in between everything - and my work will never have a charging station.

    Most of what I use my car for when I am not commuting - I'm hauling stuff. I'm driving my truck over mud, to the dump, hauling mulch, dirt, manure, moving furniture and appliances - it's not for naught my truck is banged up good. I really don't want to find myself out of electric on a cold winter day on the side of a road - and have to walk a few miles for a gallon of electricity.
    Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong". Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    I went to high school with a guy whose father owned an early electric car company in Maryland. He drove one of the few cars to school every day.
    I got to ride in it - once.

    The first thing anyone would have noticed - certainly in the 70's - was as it moved across the school parking lot, I wasn't sure we weren't ROLLING - because it barely made a sound. "'Course not! It's 'lectric" I was told.

    But I also noticed how VERY cheaply it was made - most of the dash's devices were broken - the speedo he guessed at, because the cover was gone along with the needle. I wanted to roll down the window, so we pulled over and PULLED THE PLASTIC THING OUT. A small gust of wind and we got pushed to the center of the road - it was then I fully realized what I'd guessed getting into it - this thing doesn't weigh hardly anything.

    It had no typical car features. No heat. No real pick up at all. Not even a radio. I don't even remember if it had wipers. And it barely had room for two. It had the feel of a lawnmower with a roof.

    And it cost close to the cost of a regular car. To my knowledge, his dad's company disappeared. The technology wasn't there in the 70's and it's still not there to my satisfaction NOW. The only reason I would ever own an electric car is if I was an empty-nester and never had to drive more than 10-15 miles at a time.
    Have you gone for a ride in a Tesla? It would change your mind in an instant. Them things are incredible.
    Nepotism begins at home

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