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Thread: Exodus 34 God is Jealous

  1. #1

    Exodus 34 God is Jealous

    Exodus 34:8 Moses bowed to the ground at once and worshiped. 9 “Lord,” he said, “if I have found favor in your eyes, then let the Lord go with us. Although this is a stiff-necked people, forgive our wickedness and our sin, and take us as your inheritance.”

    10 Then the Lord said: “I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the Lord, will do for you. 11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles.[a] 14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.


    a. Exodus 34:13 That is, wooden symbols of the goddess Asherah

    This is from the easy English site.

    God promised Moses that he would do wonderful things for the Israelites. If they obeyed him, he would force out all the other people from the country called Canaan. And God would give their country to the Israelites. The list of the different nations emphasises that this would be a difficult job. Those people were very strong. But God was stronger, and he would give the country to the Israelites (Deuteronomy 4:38).

    God warned the Israelites about the dangers that they would meet. They must not make an agreement with any group in the country called Canaan. This agreement would become like a trap for them. It would be easy for the Israelites to start to worship those people’s false gods. So the Israelites must destroy everything that the people used in Canaan. God wants us to be completely loyal to him. We must worship only God. God said, ‘My name is Jealous’. That means that God is jealous. And it is right that God is jealous. He does not want people to worship any false gods. The Israelites must worship only God. That is the only right way. So he cannot allow anyone or anything to become another god. The Israelites must worship the LORD. Nothing must cause them to stop.

    I thought at least one of the other commentaries would offer this in a different light. Normally someone has written an "alternate" commentary. I didn't find anything but restatement or preachy stuff.

    Nothing can be more important than God. Not money, food, your family, or even yourself. Everything, right down to the tiniest molecule or tiniest hint of a thought, is secondary to God. If it gets in the way, remember, He's a jealous God.

    You want to be a true follower? You have to give everything and everyone second place in your life. Nothing can be more important than God. It's ok to love someone.... you just have to love God more.

    seekeroftruth = hotcoffee

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by seekeroftruth View Post
    Nothing can be more important than God. Not money, food, your family, or even yourself. Everything, right down to the tiniest molecule or tiniest hint of a thought, is secondary to God. If it gets in the way, remember, He's a jealous God.

    You want to be a true follower? You have to give everything and everyone second place in your life. Nothing can be more important than God. It's ok to love someone.... you just have to love God more.
    HC, how does one ‘love’ such a jealous and violent ‘god’? Or his ‘son’ who believes in slavery and eternal torture?

    You’re free to love whomever you want without putting a god first. A 'god' that's never been proven to be anything but mythical.

    Don’t trap yourself in such a narrow dogmatic view of life, that you miss out on the beauty of the human experience.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by ProximaCentauri View Post
    HC, how does one ‘love’ such a jealous and violent ‘god’? Or his ‘son’ who believes in slavery and eternal torture?

    You’re free to love whomever you want without putting a god first. A 'god' that's never been proven to be anything but mythical.

    Don’t trap yourself in such a narrow dogmatic view of life, that you miss out on the beauty of the human experience.
    Interesting that you allow Seeker to love anyone they choose - but then tell Seeker to limit love from being given to a God of Seeker's choice. Almost like you have no idea that what you're saying is self-contradictory.

    By the way, has God ever been disproved? Did you ever come up with evidence - from a repeatable, peer-reviewed study - that starts from nothing (no time, no space, no matter) and generated a universe from it? Asking for a friend.
    There are only two possibilities; one is that we are alone in the universe, the other is that we are not.
    Both are terrifying.

  4. #4
    I Need a Life b23hqb's Avatar
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    I'm all for a jealous God that loves me and will not let go of me. Peeps like PC think they invented themselves, and all that makes up the universe. God has never been disproved, and never will be. It's much easier for them to just believe that everything just happened for no cause or reason, out of nothing, leading to no hope for anything beyond their miserable existence.
    “The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable.” - President James A. Garfield

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ProximaCentauri View Post
    HC, how does one ‘love’ such a jealous and violent ‘god’? Or his ‘son’ who believes in slavery and eternal torture?

    You’re free to love whomever you want without putting a god first. A 'god' that's never been proven to be anything but mythical.

    Don’t trap yourself in such a narrow dogmatic view of life, that you miss out on the beauty of the human experience.
    He loved me first. ProximaCentauri, I feel so sad for anyone who just refuses to believe. The deck is stacked against that person.

    If you are right and there is no eternity.... then I'll just be ashes in the end. If I'm right I'll be living in Heaven. There will be no more sorrow, worry, pain, or hate.

    If you are right and there is no eternity.... I won't know it cause I'll be ashes. If I'm right I'll be living in Heaven.... where there is no more smog, acid rain, or pollution.

    If you are right and there is no eternity.... then when the earth flies into the sun.... it won't make a difference. If I'm right I'll be living in Heaven where there will be no more abuse, cruelty, or tears.

    Your argument just doesn't sound all that appealing to me..... sorry.... I choose to love my God rather than listen to some human who thinks humans have all the answers.

    During my time here on earth, I have had hope and peace because I can depend on God. You say He's not real. I say He is. I say God will never give me more than I can handle. I know I can make it out of anything because I have Hope.

    Last edited by seekeroftruth; 02-16-2017 at 07:26 AM.
    seekeroftruth = hotcoffee

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by seekeroftruth View Post
    He loved me first. ProximaCentauri, I feel so sad for anyone who just refuses to believe. The deck is stacked against that person.
    “Refusal to believe” and a "stacked deck" against those who refuse is an interesting choice of wording. People were savagely tortured by Christians for their ‘Refusal to believe’ during the middle ages. Just remember, the same ‘god’ that ‘loves’ you says he will torture you for all eternity if you should ever 'fall away' so you'd better keep yourself straight Also remember if the Catholics have it right, the guarantee of your salvation just might be a little shaky.

    And by the way, since the number of ‘gods’ created by man is in the hundreds, if not in the thousands, the probability that one is real, and further that the only 'real god' just happens to be the one you've chosen, is rather low.

    It's a safe bet that the Muslims, the Hindus, Jews and others would have a little something to say about the arrogance of your statement that you 'feel sad for anyone refusing to believe' in your god.


    Quote Originally Posted by seekeroftruth View Post
    If you are right and there is no eternity.... then I'll just be ashes in the end. If I'm right I'll be living in Heaven. There will be no more sorrow, worry, pain, or hate.
    If you are right and there is no eternity.... I won't know it cause I'll be ashes. If I'm right I'll be living in Heaven.... where there is no more smog, acid rain, or pollution.
    If you are right and there is no eternity.... then when the earth flies into the sun.... it won't make a difference. If I'm right I'll be living in Heaven where there will be no more abuse, cruelty, or tears.

    Your religion is not the only religion with a ‘Heaven.’ Google ‘Heaven’ to get an idea of the number of religions that claim one.

    The idea of “Heaven” is man’s solution to his great fear of death.


    Quote Originally Posted by seekeroftruth View Post
    Your argument just doesn't sound all that appealing to me..... sorry.... I choose to love my God rather than listen to some human who thinks humans have all the answers.

    During my time here on earth, I have had hope and peace because I can depend on God. You say He's not real. I say He is. I say God will never give me more than I can handle. I know I can make it out of anything because I have Hope.

    No, I don’t think humans have all the answers. But your ‘god’, HC has no answers. Only fake answers that are based on your fears. Your fear of suffering, fear of things you cannot control, and fear of death.

    ‘Faith’ is not a virtue, HC. Faith is fear, dressed-up like virtue.

  7. #7
    1 Kings 18:16 So Obadiah went to meet Ahab and told him, and Ahab went to meet Elijah. 17 When he saw Elijah, he said to him, “Is that you, you troubler of Israel?”

    18 “I have not made trouble for Israel,” Elijah replied. “But you and your father’s family have. You have abandoned the Lord’s commands and have followed the Baals. 19 Now summon the people from all over Israel to meet me on Mount Carmel. And bring the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and the four hundred prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel’s table.”

    20 So Ahab sent word throughout all Israel and assembled the prophets on Mount Carmel. 21 Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.”

    But the people said nothing.

    22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”

    Then all the people said, “What you say is good.”

    25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire.” 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it.

    Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made.

    27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.

    30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come here to me.” They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the Lord, which had been torn down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Your name shall be Israel.” 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs[a] of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, “Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.”

    34 “Do it again,” he said, and they did it again.

    “Do it a third time,” he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench.

    36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.”

    38 Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.

    39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The Lord—he is God! The Lord—he is God!”

    I love that story.... I think of it anytime someone tries to belittle My God.

    seekeroftruth = hotcoffee

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by seekeroftruth View Post
    1 Kings 18:16 So Obadiah went to meet Ahab and told him, and Ahab went to meet Elijah. 17 When he saw Elijah, he said to him, “Is that you, you troubler of Israel?”

    18 “I have not made trouble for Israel,” Elijah replied. “But you and your father’s family have. You have abandoned the Lord’s commands and have followed the Baals. 19 Now summon the people from all over Israel to meet me on Mount Carmel. And bring the four hundred and fifty prophets of Baal and the four hundred prophets of Asherah, who eat at Jezebel’s table.”

    20 So Ahab sent word throughout all Israel and assembled the prophets on Mount Carmel. 21 Elijah went before the people and said, “How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.”

    But the people said nothing.

    22 Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”

    Then all the people said, “What you say is good.”

    25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire.” 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it.

    Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon. “Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made.

    27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.

    30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come here to me.” They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the Lord, which had been torn down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying, “Your name shall be Israel.” 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs[a] of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, “Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.”

    34 “Do it again,” he said, and they did it again.

    “Do it a third time,” he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench.

    36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed: “Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.”

    38 Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.

    39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The Lord—he is God! The Lord—he is God!”

    I love that story.... I think of it anytime someone tries to belittle My God.

    HC, You're quite sneaky here...let's see what verse 40 has to say...

    18:40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.

    This story is the domination, control, and killing of peoples worshiping competing gods like Baal. If the Israelites were to consolidate their power under the mythical god of Yahweh, there could be no competing mythical gods like Baal. That's what this story is all about.

    Drink some more coffee, HC.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ProximaCentauri View Post
    “Refusal to believe” ... against those who refuse is an interesting choice of wording.
    I would say referring to someone who refuses as someone who refuses is pretty accurate, wouldn't you?

    And by the way, since the number of ‘gods’ created by man is in the hundreds, if not in the thousands, the probability that one is real, and further that the only 'real god' just happens to be the one you've chosen, is rather low.
    If we're looking at the statistics, wouldn't you say that since one of the choices of gods is "none of the above", that choice is therefore just in the list with the rest making it just as unlikely as all the rest? I mean, if we are going to judge faith by statistics, your faith that there is no god is just as valid as every other one (you have just as much proof), and therefore is just as unlikely as any of the individual gods.

    Funny how statistics work like that - all honest and ####.

    No, I don’t think humans have all the answers. But your ‘god’, HC has no answers.
    More interesting truth here. Humans have no answers, either. We have a great deal of speculation with tests that show some amount of confirmation of speculation (though absolutely zero causation, only correlation), just like we had when we said the earth was flat, or that the sun orbited the earth, or any other "final scientific answers" that we've had.

    Yeah, your faith is on firm ground there!

    Only fake answers that are based on your fears. Your fear of suffering, fear of things you cannot control, and fear of death.
    I am assuming you are not specifically going after Seeker here, but every person of religion. If my assumption is correct, I would very much appreciate your proof that the answers are fake. I will ask you again to please design the experiment wherein you take absolutely nothing - no time, no space, no material - and generate a universe. Recall that to meet your own scientific method, this experiment must be repeatable and peer reviewed. When you can do that, your answers will no longer be faith in speculation, but fact. I await your study.

    ‘Faith’ is not a virtue, HC. Faith is fear, dressed-up like virtue.
    That's rather judgmental, wouldn't you say? On what standard do you assess faith as "not a virtue"?
    There are only two possibilities; one is that we are alone in the universe, the other is that we are not.
    Both are terrifying.

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