Flynn’s fall should have the intel community in the hot seat

[GURPS]

Flynn’s fall should have the intel community in the hot seat



Flynn initially said the call was routine and meant to set up a broader conversation between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. He, Vice President Mike Pence and White House Spokesman Sean Spicer subsequently and falsely denied that Flynn had discussed sanctions.

So what’s the legal issue? Some commentators suggest Flynn violated the Logan Act, but this is a red herring. While the Logan Act forbids American citizens from negotiating in their personal capacity with foreign governments in order to resolve disputes with the United States, not only is this constitutionally untested, but Flynn has precedent on his side.

Team Clinton spoke with foreign officials as they prepared to take power after Bill Clinton beat George H.W. Bush in 1992. Before and after Obama triumphed in the 2008 elections, his team reached out to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to reassure him that Bush’s policy of isolation would end.

More generally, the basis of much-applauded Track II dialogues is to use private but politically connected citizens to float trial balloons.

Simply put, the conversation Flynn had was not illegal.

 

[Hijinx]

Flynn’s fall should have the intel community in the hot seat



Flynn initially said the call was routine and meant to set up a broader conversation between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. He, Vice President Mike Pence and White House Spokesman Sean Spicer subsequently and falsely denied that Flynn had discussed sanctions.

So what’s the legal issue? Some commentators suggest Flynn violated the Logan Act, but this is a red herring. While the Logan Act forbids American citizens from negotiating in their personal capacity with foreign governments in order to resolve disputes with the United States, not only is this constitutionally untested, but Flynn has precedent on his side.

Team Clinton spoke with foreign officials as they prepared to take power after Bill Clinton beat George H.W. Bush in 1992. Before and after Obama triumphed in the 2008 elections, his team reached out to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to reassure him that Bush’s policy of isolation would end.

More generally, the basis of much-applauded Track II dialogues is to use private but politically connected citizens to float trial balloons.

Simply put, the conversation Flynn had was not illegal.

It would appear that no conversation by any communications device is safe.
Does it occur to anyone else that this sh1t has gone too far?

 

[SamSpade]

I guess I didn't realize until this week that our intelligence agencies can act politically.
I've been reminded on the news that they've done this for years - the difference here was, they were planning to take down Flynn before he took the position.

 

[Kev_Russell]

I guess I didn't realize until this week that our intelligence agencies can act politically.

Good lord dude. That's is ALL they do -- act politically. What do you think they are getting paid to do when they topple other governments?

Open your eyes man.

 

[SamSpade]

Good lord dude. That's is ALL they do -- act politically. What do you think they are getting paid to do when they topple other governments?

Open your eyes man.

One, you and I have a very different idea of what that entails and secondly, I didn't think they were supposed to be doing this to our own guys.

 

[kwillia]

I guess I didn't realize until this week that our intelligence agencies can act politically.
I've been reminded on the news that they've done this for years - the difference here was, they were planning to take down Flynn before he took the position.

Add to that that they can pick and chose what to share with the commander in chief and then let's all take a moment to ponder the "shadow government" truly running the country that's been mumbled about for decades. Doesn't seem so far fetched after witnessing what's come to light of late, huh?

 

[Hijinx]

Good lord dude. That's is ALL they do -- act politically. What do you think they are getting paid to do when they topple other governments?

Open your eyes man.

When the new President takes office they are supposed to do like most every other American does. Accept him/her as the new President, not prepare a coup against him/her.
It appears that this intelligence community or parts of it cannot do that. The part that cannot do that needs to be removed.
I am looking hard at this McMullin guy. A former CIA officer who appears to be leading this movement in the community.

 

[Kev_Russell]

One, you and I have a very different idea of what that entails and

You and I can think differently on what that means all you want. It doesn't change the fact that every single action of the intelligence apparatus in this country is political. Every. Single. One. Domestically, abroad, it doesn't matter.

secondly, I didn't think they were supposed to be doing this to our own guys.

Weren't supposed to be doing that to our own guys according to what? Law? LOL, good one. According to ethics? OMG, I'm gonna bust a gut over here.

"all enemies foreign and domestic."

 

[Kev_Russell]

When the new President takes office they are supposed to do like most every other American does. Accept him/her as the new President, not prepare a coup against him/her.
It appears that this intelligence community or parts of it cannot do that. The part that cannot do that needs to be removed.
I am looking hard at this McMullin guy. A former CIA officer who appears to be leading this movement in the community.

"supposed to"?

Dude you come from a world I don't know. Where is the list of things we are "supposed to" do? Can you point me to it. And I'm not talking about the 10 Commandments.

Not prepare a coup? Good god man, do you actually understand how this nation was founded?

 

[Hijinx]

You and I can think differently on what that means all you want. It doesn't change the fact that every single action of the intelligence apparatus in this country is political. Every. Single. One. Domestically, abroad, it doesn't matter.



Weren't supposed to be doing that to our own guys according to what? Law? LOL, good one. According to ethics? OMG, I'm gonna bust a gut over here.

"all enemies foreign and domestic."

They are the enemy . The oath they swore is a joke when they try to remove the duly elected President.
Calling that President the enemy, makes them the enemy. They need to be removed and removed now.

 

[Kev_Russell]

They are the enemy . The oath they swore is a joke when they try to remove the duly elected President.
Calling that President the enemy, makes them the enemy. They need to be removed and removed now.

Oath.

 

[Hijinx]

"supposed to"?

Dude you come from a world I don't know. Where is the list of things we are "supposed to" do? Can you point me to it. And I'm not talking about the 10 Commandments.

Not prepare a coup? Good god man, do you actually understand how this nation was founded? [/QUOTE

As a matter of fact I do. The people of the United States removed a foreign power and formed their own government. A government that has been good for 238 years as it was founded. If you want a coup now you are a traitor. Period , end of statement.

 

[Hijinx]

Oath.

Oath, something an honorable person takes and stand by, His word.
Anyone who thinks an oath is a joke is a fool.

 

[Kev_Russell]

"supposed to"?

Dude you come from a world I don't know. Where is the list of things we are "supposed to" do? Can you point me to it. And I'm not talking about the 10 Commandments.

Not prepare a coup? Good god man, do you actually understand how this nation was founded?

As a matter of fact I do. The people of the United States removed a foreign power and formed their own government. A government that has been good for 238 years as it was founded. If you want a coup now you are a traitor. Period , end of statement.

I said nothing of "wanting" a coup. I'm simply pointing out that what you are witnessing is the work of the intelligence apparatus. You can get paid to this and make a career out of it in fact.

Your talk of sedition and traitors is all emotion-based, the crutch of leftist nimrods like you.

 

[Hijinx]

I said nothing of "wanting" a coup. I'm simply pointing out that what you are witnessing is the work of the intelligence apparatus. You can get paid to this and make a career out of it in fact.

Your talk of sedition and traitors is all emotion-based, the crutch of leftist nimrods like you.

Not emotion based at all. It's happening. Some parts of the intelligence community are interfering in the peaceful transition of the American presidency.
That my friend is the act of traitors.


LMAO now I am a leftist. Kev you get more dense by the day.

 

[Larry Gude]

[

Simply put, the conversation Flynn had was not illegal.

Did her or did he not mislead Pence? isn't that THE issue?

 

[GURPS]

Did her or did he not mislead Pence? isn't that THE issue?

NO that is not the Issue ....

Intelligence Community Bureaucrats picking and choosing who or what they work for / cooperate with

one theory:
Flynn was hard on the Obama Administration Deal with Iran .... so hard he was going to expose the dirty unpublished secrets of the Iran deal
people in the Intelligence Community favorable to Obama sand bagged Flynn over these phone calls to cover up for Obama

 

[Larry Gude]

NO that is not the Issue .... Ok. I thought it was, but no?

Intelligence Community Bureaucrats picking and choosing who or what they work for / cooperate with

one theory:
Flynn was hard on the Obama Administration Deal with Iran .... so hard he was going to expose the dirty unpublished secrets of the Iran deal
people in the Intelligence Community favorable to Obama sand bagged Flynn over these phone calls to cover up for Obama

But why would Trump fire him seeings how he, Trump, opposed the Iran deal???

 

[SamSpade]

You and I can think differently on what that means all you want. It doesn't change the fact that every single action of the intelligence apparatus in this country is political.

I'm afraid that's precisely the difference. What you think it means and what I think it means matter or else we aren't talking about the same thing.

When I'm at work, and people mention "office politics" or "being political" they don't mean governing the country.
When I'm in a social group like a PTA or HOA, and someone is playing a political game, it doesn't mean resolving social issues.

It translates into self promotion. It's using the existing structure to promote yourself in the existing community. It's one-upmanship.
People in these small associations do character assassination and stunts to advance themselves.

I don't see that with intelligence agencies, whose principal mission is to gather intelligence - and when authorized, to act on it.
Toppling a foreign government or arm twisting a deal with another country - as I see it - is self-preservation. You do it in the interest of your country.
It's only politics if you do it in the interest of a person - or a party.

And I don't think an intelligence agency is supposed to make an "enemy" of people in the government not because they pose a threat to the nation,
but because they threaten your legacy or threaten your pet project. Do you really think Flynn - or Trump - is an "enemy" to this country?

 

[Midnightrider]

I guess I didn't realize until this week that our intelligence agencies can act politically.
I've been reminded on the news that they've done this for years - the difference here was, they were planning to take down Flynn before he took the position.

Did you miss the FBI releasing that they might be further investigating Hillary just before the election? that seemed about as political as it could get

Did her or did he not mislead Pence? isn't that THE issue?

that is the issue. the rest is just a shiny object the administration is trying to use to distract the masses
See:

NO that is not the Issue ....

Intelligence Community Bureaucrats picking and choosing who or what they work for / cooperate with

one theory:
Flynn was hard on the Obama Administration Deal with Iran .... so hard he was going to expose the dirty unpublished secrets of the Iran deal
people in the Intelligence Community favorable to Obama sand bagged Flynn over these phone calls to cover up for Obama

complete idiocy

But why would Trump fire him seeings how he, Trump, opposed the Iran deal???

nobody has an answer for that one. It is obvious to anyone with an once of logic that he either did something wrong or he is a scapegoat to isolate trumps involvement.