New Trump claims about deadly Yemen raid appear to be untrue

nhboy

Ubi bene ibi patria
" Following up on a story we’ve been following, Donald Trump continues to face important questions about the first military raid he ordered as president, which tragically turned deadly. The fact that the Republican president is avoiding responsibility for what happened – and doesn’t appear to be telling the truth about the mission itself – makes the questions all the more serious.

As we’ve discussed, the plan was to acquire intelligence and equipment at an al Qaeda camp in Yemen, but the mission quickly went sideways: Chief Petty Officer William “Ryan” Owens, a member of SEAL Team 6, was killed; several other Americans were injured; and by the end of the operation, multiple civilians, including children, were dead.

It’s been described as a mission in which “almost everything went wrong,” a dynamic made more complicated by U.S. military officials suggesting to Reuters that Trump approved the mission “without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations.”

Owens’ father, Bill, has refused to meet Trump and wants an investigation into the mission. The president was asked for his reaction in a Fox News interview that aired this morning, and Trump responded by effectively saying the mission he ordered wasn’t his idea.
“Well, this was a mission that was started before I got here. This was something that was, you know, just, they wanted to do. And they came to see me, they explained what they wanted to do, the generals…. And they lost Ryan.”

Trump went on to talk about his presence at the airport when Owens’ remains returned. He added, in reference to the mission, “This was something that they were looking at for a long time.” The president concluded that it was “a very successful mission,” which produced “tremendous amounts of information.”

There are a couple of key problems with Trump’s assessment. First, it’s genuinely bizarre to hear a Commander in Chief, reflecting on a mission he personally authorized, try to avoid responsibility for the mission he green-lit. I realize Trump’s new at this, but as a rule, presidents at least try to appear accountable.
Second and more important is the fact that Trump’s version of events is at odds with the available evidence. As Rachel noted on the show last week, Team Trump has maintained in recent weeks that it was the Obama administration that approved the mission at a meeting of the National Security Council on Jan. 6, even if it was carried out soon after Trump took office. "

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/new-trump-claims-about-deadly-yemen-raid-appear-be-untrue
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
you really are a clueless #### ....

the President does not plan Military Operations, the Military does that ...

they, then present pros and cons about said Operations - the President takes the recommendations of the Planners of Said Missions or ultimately decides No, not worth the risk
 
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Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
you really are a clueless #### ....

the President does not plan Military Operations, the Military does that ...

they, then present pros and cons about said Operations - the President takes the recommendations of the Planners of Said Missions or ultimately decides No, not worth the risk
if the buck doesn't stop with the president, who does it stop with?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
if the buck doesn't stop with the president, who does it stop with?

Obscure on line film makers.

Or disorganized mobs of outraged Muslims who suddenly become a militia and launch an organized coordinated attack.

Or...well, never mind. What difference does it make now? :lol:



Trump gave the go ahead to a risky mission in order to look good early on with his 'wipe out ISIS day one' pledges. It didn't go all that well and there are whispers that it was a bad mission and the go ahead was political, not operationally sound. It seems it was not a ready to go as soon as we get a good CiC mission long delayed by the last one because he wasn't about making America Great again.

I don't expect Trump to come any more clean on this than Obama did. I will say Trump, while polishing it a tad, sure isn't blaming on line film makers.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
Obscure on line film makers.

Or disorganized mobs of outraged Muslims who suddenly become a militia and launch an organized coordinated attack.

Or...well, never mind. What difference does it make now? :lol:



Trump gave the go ahead to a risky mission in order to look good early on with his 'wipe out ISIS day one' pledges. It didn't go all that well and there are whispers that it was a bad mission and the go ahead was political, not operationally sound. It seems it was not a ready to go as soon as we get a good CiC mission long delayed by the last one because he wasn't about making America Great again.

I don't expect Trump to come any more clean on this than Obama did. I will say Trump, while polishing it a tad, sure isn't blaming on line film makers.

He is blaming Obama!!!
While "but bush" was a common retort to criticisms aimed at Obama, I don't actually remember Obama saying "but bush" his minions did. here we have trump actually saying "but Obama planned this"
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
He is blaming Obama!!!
While "but bush" was a common retort to criticisms aimed at Obama, I don't actually remember Obama saying "but bush" his minions did. here we have trump actually saying "but Obama planned this"

Oh, come on. Obama himself said many times that the economy was worse than he realized. It's one thing for pols to steal one another's thunder and blame one another. Quite another to dump it on some person.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member

PsyOps

Pixelated
If things went as wrong as it sounds, there should be an investigation into this. But, much you anti-Trump peoples' dismay, none of this will fall on Trump for any failures. If any of you pushed your hatred for Trump and your desire to see him impeached aside, and looked at how things really work militarily, you'd know the president only give the okay. He's not responsible for devising a plan, getting the right troops to implement that plan, and the execution of that plan. You really makes yourselves look like fools thinking Trump is responsible for a mission's failure.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Two more great sources!!! If CNN and MSNBC are "fake" in your book...WTF are these POS sites?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you don't actually dispute the CONTENT of the articles, right? Since one of them is pretty much nothing more than quotes from Obama?
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
Oh, come on. Obama himself said many times that the economy was worse than he realized. It's one thing for pols to steal one another's thunder and blame one another. Quite another to dump it on some person.
that's not nearly the same as taking action and then trying to distance yourself from responsibility by saying it was planned under the previous administration.
If things went as wrong as it sounds, there should be an investigation into this. But, much you anti-Trump peoples' dismay, none of this will fall on Trump for any failures. If any of you pushed your hatred for Trump and your desire to see him impeached aside, and looked at how things really work militarily, you'd know the president only give the okay. He's not responsible for devising a plan, getting the right troops to implement that plan, and the execution of that plan. You really makes yourselves look like fools thinking Trump is responsible for a mission's failure.

That's right, he gave the OK. i don't see anyone blaming trump for the mission's failure. however, trump does hold the ultimate responsibility. The buck does stop with him. Its very doubtful this would unseat him, but there is no denying that he made the call so he owns this one.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Two more great sources!!! If CNN and MSNBC are "fake" in your book...WTF are these POS sites?

You poor brainless fool..once again you neglected to include your sources that refute the contents at the links. Please work on this repeated failure on your part.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
That's right, he gave the OK. i don't see anyone blaming trump for the mission's failure. however, trump does hold the ultimate responsibility. The buck does stop with him. Its very doubtful this would unseat him, but there is no denying that he made the call so he owns this one.

The only thing a president would be responsible for with these things is to find out what went wrong and hold anyone accountable that screwed up. That would not be him. The president is not at fault for a failed mission just because he gave the okay. He gave the okay with full faith his troops would do it right. It's like me giving my kid an errand for some groceries. I give him the car keys, he has his mission and gets in a crash on the way. Am I to blame because my kid crashed my car?
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
You poor brainless fool..once again you neglected to include your sources that refute the contents at the links. Please work on this repeated failure on your part.

Haven't you paid attention? T0J0 is his source. He is the authority on all things. He doesn't need any sources outside his own brilliant mind.


Crap! I forgot ----------> :sarcasm:
 

glhs837

Power with Control
So, how did a plan so poorly put together end up in front of the President to sign off on? who the hell in the chain of command (the folks whose job it is to NOT pass on to the President, who is untrained in such things, crappy plans with poor intel and logistics) signed off on this raid? As pointed out, the President is the one responsible. The buck stops with him. But don't confuse responsibility with fault. Leaders eat crap sandwiches made for them by incompetent juniors every day. And then proceed to roll some crap back downhill to make sure that doesn't happen again.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
The only thing a president would be responsible for with these things is to find out what went wrong and hold anyone accountable that screwed up. That would not be him. The president is not at fault for a failed mission just because he gave the okay. He gave the okay with full faith his troops would do it right. It's like me giving my kid an errand for some groceries. I give him the car keys, he has his mission and gets in a crash on the way. Am I to blame because my kid crashed my car?

you are responsible. you can blame who you want :yay:
 
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Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
So, how did a plan so poorly put together end up in front of the President to sign off on? who the hell in the chain of command (the folks whose job it is to NOT pass on to the President, who is untrained in such things, crappy plans with poor intel and logistics) signed off on this raid? As pointed out, the President is the one responsible. The buck stops with him. But don't confuse responsibility with fault. Leaders eat crap sandwiches made for them by incompetent juniors every day. And then proceed to roll some crap back downhill to make sure that doesn't happen again.
exactly
trump was supposed to be the best at selecting good people to surround himself with. What happened to that?
 
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