Hijab as a form of oppression

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Help me with that. My understanding is that the hijab is a religious garment worn by women, no different than the Amish lady caps or the hair coverings many Christian women wear. Are we saying that all religious garments are oppressive, or just Muslim ones?

I just saw a meme that criticized Nike for making sport hijab and said, "Oppression was never so cool." I don't understand how that is "oppressive".
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
Help me with that. My understanding is that the hijab is a religious garment worn by women, no different than the Amish lady caps or the hair coverings many Christian women wear. Are we saying that all religious garments are oppressive, or just Muslim ones?

I just saw a meme that criticized Nike for making sport hijab and said, "Oppression was never so cool." I don't understand how that is "oppressive".
you have it exactly right. A hijab is no different than the coverings many religions wear, they have just been demonized because they are part of the traditions of the 'evil muslims'. Its all about us v them. Besides, the ones that nike is producing are meant to be worn by female athletes. those women are feeling choosing to participate in sports and wear a religious headdress while doing so.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
Help me with that. My understanding is that the hijab is a religious garment worn by women, no different than the Amish lady caps or the hair coverings many Christian women wear. Are we saying that all religious garments are oppressive, or just Muslim ones?

I just saw a meme that criticized Nike for making sport hijab and said, "Oppression was never so cool." I don't understand how that is "oppressive".

I doubt any Amish woman would be stoned under Amish rules if they didn't wear their cap.

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/08/islamic-state-stones-five-women-to-death-for-not-wearing-the-veil

Of course here in America I suppose they choose to wear their religious garment.
If they choose to be oppressed, nothing we can do about that.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Actually the Hijab, nor the Burka are religious items.

Nowhere does the Koran say women should wear either.

Both the Hijab, and the Burka are an oppressive man's interpretation of the Koran, and what a woman MUST do to make MAN happy, not their God or Mohammed.

the religion in and of itself oppresses women, the Hijab is a just a symbol of that oppression whether suffered willingly or not.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
Actually the Hijab, nor the Burka are religious items.

Nowhere does the Koran say women should wear either.

Both the Hijab, and the Burka are an oppressive man's interpretation of the Koran, and what a woman MUST do to make MAN happy, not their God or Mohammed.

the religion in and of itself oppresses women, the Hijab is a just a symbol of that oppression whether suffered willingly or not.



a religious practice is not dependent on only what is in their religious book. I bet you would be hard pressed to find the part of the bible that says Amish women must wear a bonnet.
 

Toxick

Splat
Help me with that. My understanding is that the hijab is a religious garment worn by women, no different than the Amish lady caps or the hair coverings many Christian women wear. Are we saying that all religious garments are oppressive, or just Muslim ones?

I just saw a meme that criticized Nike for making sport hijab and said, "Oppression was never so cool." I don't understand how that is "oppressive".


I was of the understanding that it wasn't necessarily oppressive when Muslim women wore these things, because it's their religion, and they choose to wear their religious garments of their own free will, etc.

It is oppressive when someone from another culture - say a secular culture, or one that doesn't have constraints on their clothes - goes to their country and are forced to cover their faces when it's not their custom to do so. Or when a girl decides she doesn't want to wear these clothes any more, and she's stigmatized for such a scandalous choice.




I could be wrong.
Probably am.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
a religious practice is not dependent on only what is in their religious book. I bet you would be hard pressed to find the part of the bible that says Amish women must wear a bonnet.

Who beats them if they don't wear it? Comparing Amish women to Muslim women is being truly dishonest..

Nobody is going to stone an Amish woman for not obeying.. or even leaving her sect..

Amish police aren't going to whip and beat an Amish woman they catch not wearing her bonnet..

Amish police aren't going to punish an Amish woman for being raped..
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
I was of the understanding that it wasn't necessarily oppressive when Muslim women wore these things, because it's their religion, and they choose to wear their religious garments of their own free will, etc.

It is oppressive when someone from another culture - say a secular culture, or one that doesn't have constraints on their clothes - goes to their country and are forced to cover their faces when it's not their custom to do so. Or when a girl decides she doesn't want to wear these clothes any more, and she's stigmatized for such a scandalous choice.




I could be wrong.
Probably am.

I think you have a very good point. My cousin's husband went to work in Saudi and his wife hed to wear this BS.
She wasn't real happy about it.
 

libertytyranny

Dream Stealer
I was of the understanding that it wasn't necessarily oppressive when Muslim women wore these things, because it's their religion, and they choose to wear their religious garments of their own free will, etc.

It is oppressive when someone from another culture - say a secular culture, or one that doesn't have constraints on their clothes - goes to their country and are forced to cover their faces when it's not their custom to do so. Or when a girl decides she doesn't want to wear these clothes any more, and she's stigmatized for such a scandalous choice.




I could be wrong.
Probably am.

This. When it is a mantle taken on by a religious woman in accordance with her faith, like a nun, orthodox jew etc theres nothing wrong with it. Orthodox women of many religions cover their hair or dress modestly or both. The problem arises when it is mandated by a force of law (muslim majority countries), women are beat with spiked clubs for not wearing it and those not of the religion are forced to cover their entire bodies anyway because it may aggrevate the men in the geographical area. That's when it is opression. When it is not a free will covering of hair for modesty/religious reasons, but rather a cloaking of all women in order to control them.

I happily covered my hair in the Russian Orthodox churches I visited in St. Petersburg..I felt it respectful. It is not required of visitors. But the minute someone me I HAVE to, just to be around muslim men, I wouldn't feel so obliging.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
I think you have a very good point. My cousin's husband went to work in Saudi and his wife hed to wear this BS.
She wasn't real happy about it.

It was weird... When I was there they would change this back and forth. When I first got there American women, that went outside of our base, had to wear head covering. Then they could expose their heads but had to cover their legs and arms. Then as I was leaving, they demanded American women cover their heads again. Straying from any of this would result in very strict punishment and jail time. I don't think some people get how oppressive these countries are to women. Just the mere fact that men can summarily kill their wives or daughters is oppression enough. And their killings are most inhumane.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
I was of the understanding that it wasn't necessarily oppressive when Muslim women wore these things, because it's their religion, and they choose to wear their religious garments of their own free will, etc.

No, they don't choose to wear the hijab. They are required to. If they repealed the requirement, I'd bet most would stop wearing it. Bahrain is one of the more moderate Muslim countries in the region. Most of the women do not cover their heads. It's damn hot in that region and I imagine it would be a welcome relief.

But this is just a small part of how men keep women under their thumbs. Women have absolutely no rights at all - NONE! They have no parental rights. They have no driving rights. They have no speech rights. They are segregated in their Mosque; which means they don't have equal religious rights. If they are even suspected of something the husband considers them to be defiled, they will be killed. The hijab represents that submission to men and Allah and the forfeiture of all rights.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
How does this strict adherence to Islam square with Muslim contestants in the beauty pageants? Or Saudi Arabian actresses and singers? I keep hearing how oppressive and strict Muslim countries are, but many of these women have careers, wear makeup, and fashionable clothing. I'm sure we've all seen the photos of women wearing the complete head covering with just their heavily made up eyes showing.

I'm just trying to figure how how this all works. Princess Ameerah Al-taweel is not only college educated, but she's an outspoken women's rights activist, and as far as I'm aware she has not been stoned to death.

Saudi Princess:

Ameera_al-Taweel.jpg

Saudi Actress:

Nermin.jpg

UAE Politician and Activist:

Sheikha.jpg

Miss Pakistan:

Ramina.jpg



These women are all Muslim and note that they aren't wearing a head covering. Why would American women have to cover in Saudi when their own women don't have to? Does anyone know what the laws actually are?
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
How does this strict adherence to Islam square with Muslim contestants in the beauty pageants? Or Saudi Arabian actresses and singers? I keep hearing how oppressive and strict Muslim countries are, but many of these women have careers, wear makeup, and fashionable clothing. I'm sure we've all seen the photos of women wearing the complete head covering with just their heavily made up eyes showing.

I'm just trying to figure how how this all works. Princess Ameerah Al-taweel is not only college educated, but she's an outspoken women's rights activist, and as far as I'm aware she has not been stoned to death.

Saudi Princess:

View attachment 117573

Saudi Actress:

View attachment 117574

UAE Politician and Activist:

View attachment 117575

Miss Pakistan:

View attachment 117576



These women are all Muslim and note that they aren't wearing a head covering. Why would American women have to cover in Saudi when their own women don't have to? Does anyone know what the laws actually are?

I am not sure, but I would lay odds they weren't in Mecca when the photo's were taken.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
How does this strict adherence to Islam square with Muslim contestants in the beauty pageants? Or Saudi Arabian actresses and singers? I keep hearing how oppressive and strict Muslim countries are, but many of these women have careers, wear makeup, and fashionable clothing. I'm sure we've all seen the photos of women wearing the complete head covering with just their heavily made up eyes showing.

Saudi Princess:

View attachment 117573

These women are all Muslim and note that they aren't wearing a head covering. Why would American women have to cover in Saudi when their own women don't have to? Does anyone know what the laws actually are?

Okay, but...

'We are hostages': A Saudi princess reveals her life of hell

It was a life out of a fairy tale — until it became one they couldn’t escape.

Sahar, Maha, Hala and Jawaher Al Saud are daughters of King Abdullah bin Abdulaziz, the Saudi Arabian monarch who is worth an estimated $15 billion.

With such riches, the sisters, when younger, would take ski trips to luxurious resorts in Europe and go on endless shopping sprees, buying silk robes and jasmine oil, while their doting father bought them parures — matching jewelry sets — topped with jewel-encrusted tiaras.

The women roamed elegant tents, filled with fresh fruits and treats, on an 85-acre, $740 million compound that included a helipad emblazoned with the king’s initials.

Each of them desired a normal, albeit privileged, life: to study abroad, travel the world, and eventually marry and have children.

Now they are prisoners.

Not only has the 89-year-old king forbidden any man to seek his daughters’ hands in marriage, he’s confined them, against their will, in separate dark and suffocating quarters at his palace.

The king’s eldest daughter, 42-year-old Sahar, spoke with The Post in a rare and surreptitious phone call.

“We are cut off and isolated and alone,” she says. “We are hostages. No one can come see us, and we can’t go see anyone. Our father is responsible and his sons, our half-brothers, are both culprits in this tragedy.”

Why are the princesses being held captive?

This is far more than just a hijab. It's women oppressed as less than human. They are certainly objects for men to use as they please; but they are also subject to men to be put in a place of subservience with no rights at all.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Okay, but...

'We are hostages': A Saudi princess reveals her life of hell



This is far more than just a hijab. It's women oppressed as less than human. They are certainly objects for men to use as they please; but they are also subject to men to be put in a place of subservience with no rights at all.

The king’s eldest daughter, 42-year-old Sahar, spoke with The Post in a rare and surreptitious phone call.

If she's isolated and held prisoner, how did she even get the Post's phone number, let alone make the call? In the photo, both of the princesses are wearing lipstick, and one of them has a ballcap on.

When it comes to the rights of women, Saudi Arabia has one of the worst human-rights records in the world. Women don’t have a say in raising their children. They can’t go to school, travel, open a bank account, conduct any kind of business or get medical treatment — especially gynecological surgery — without male permission.

In public, everything except the eyes and the hands must be covered, and the slightest infraction can result in a death sentence.

But we know this cannot possibly be true, and sure enough right in the story:

Curiously, Abdullah has other daughters from other wives who are treated far, far better.

Princess Adila, for example, is married to a well-to-do Saudi businessman; she often speaks on behalf of her father. Abdullah appointed another daughter, Aliya, to the lead post in a Jeddah social-service program.

Princess Maryam, says Al Fayez, “is a doctor in Europe and she stays away.” The king’s youngest daughter, Sahab, 21, was given in marriage to Bahraini King Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa in 2011.

Not to mention, the princess in my last post is Ameera al-Taweel. She is educated, accomplished, well traveled, and an outright activist for women's rights. She is not dead. AND the other prince tried to tell her to knock it off, so she got a divorce!

It just doesn't add up.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
Who beats them if they don't wear it? Comparing Amish women to Muslim women is being truly dishonest..

Nobody is going to stone an Amish woman for not obeying.. or even leaving her sect..

Amish police aren't going to whip and beat an Amish woman they catch not wearing her bonnet..

Amish police aren't going to punish an Amish woman for being raped..

You obviously haven't been around the Amish very much. They are old school, as in no one questions a mans authority in his own home. If his wife got hit, she deserved it. They don't go to the police either. They go to the church. Even when they interact with the state courts the church has a hand in it.
Remember the Amish guy who shot the park rangers dog? The church helped negotiate the penalty and then the church paid the fine.

I'm not saying Amish women are getting stoned to death, but they are certainly being forced by their religion, read men, to wear the bonnets and plain dresses.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
If she's isolated and held prisoner, how did she even get the Post's phone number, let alone make the call? In the photo, both of the princesses are wearing lipstick, and one of them has a ballcap on.



But we know this cannot possibly be true, and sure enough right in the story:



Not to mention, the princess in my last post is Ameera al-Taweel. She is educated, accomplished, well traveled, and an outright activist for women's rights. She is not dead. AND the other prince tried to tell her to knock it off, so she got a divorce!

It just doesn't add up.

True Saudis are very privileged and don't live under the same tyrannical rules. For instance... SA used to be a big attraction to immigrants. There was big money to be had. I talked to a taxi driver that was from the Philippines, and he said non-Saudis are not allowed to own land or invest in their oil. They are not allowed to collect any sort of wealth. All wealth belongs to the Saudis. He didn't expect things to be this way when got there. He was trying to save enough money to get back to the PI.

I assure you though, if theses women get out of line, they would suffer the consequences. As long as they are bringing in the money to their masters, they free do live this life. I would encourage you to travel to a Muslim country sometime, but it's far too dangerous these days. Women have no rights at all. They are fourth-class people (I would even call them citizens). They two purposes... Serve their men as slaves and tend to the home and children. This is the only place they earn any respect at all.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I'm just trying to figure how how this all works.


So you are saying all of these pictures were taken IN Saudi Arabia ?


they obviously did not run into these guys


Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (Saudi Arabia)


While on patrol, the duties of the mutaween include, but are not restricted to:

ensuring that drugs including alcohol are not being traded.[16]
checking that women wear the abaya, a traditional cloak.[citation needed]
making sure that men and women who are spotted together in public are related.[16]
formerly, enforcing the ban on camera phones. This ban was enacted out of a fear that men would use them to secretly photograph women and publish them on the Internet without the consent of the subjects. The ban was enacted in April 2004 but was overturned in December that same year.[17]
preventing the population from engaging in "frivolous"[18] Western customs such as Valentine's Day.[19]

The punishment for such offenses is severe, often involving beatings and humiliation, and foreigners are not excluded from arrest.[20] The mutaween encourage people to inform on others they know who are suspected of acting unvirtuously, and to punish such activities.

In 2010, a 27-year-old Saudi man was sentenced to five years in prison, 500 lashes of the whip, and a SR50,000 fine after appearing in an amateur gay video online allegedly taken inside a Jeddah prison. According to an unnamed government source, “The District Court sentenced the accused in a homosexuality case that was referred to it by the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice (the Hai’a) in Jeddah before he was tried for impersonating a security man and behaving shamefully and with conduct violating the Islamic teachings.” The case started when the Hai’a’s staff arrested the man under charges of practicing homosexuality. He was referred to the Bureau for Investigation and Prosecution, which referred him to the District Court.[21]

Among the Western practices suppressed by the Mutaween is the celebration of Valentine's Day. Condemning the festivities as a "pagan feast", Mutaween inspect hotels, restaurants, coffeehouses, and gift shops on 14 February to prevent Muslim couples from giving each other Valentines or other presents. The sale of red roses, red stuffed animals, red greeting cards and other red gift items is banned, according to store owners. These items are confiscated, and those selling them subject to prosecution.[22][23]

The children's game Pokémon was banned in 2001.[24] The sale of the fashion doll Barbie was banned as a consumer product for posing a moral threat to Islam,[25] stating: "Jewish Barbie dolls, with their revealing clothes and shameful postures, accessories and tools are a symbol of decadence to the perverted West. Let us beware of her dangers and be careful."[26] Fulla dolls were designed and approved as more acceptable.
 
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