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Thread: 2nd travel ban blocked - ole Donny can't catch a break

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev_Russell View Post
    First off, those countries don't have the U.S. Constitution.
    What rights do non-citizens in other countries have under the US Constitution? If you can find one, you would have something there. Since I know you can't, that's a pretty stupid point to try and bring up.

    Secondly, Neither of Trump's bans are based on nationality, they are based on faith.

    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-r...im-immigration
    Please provide the text of the EO that names the religion of which you speak. If you can't, you're making an assumption based on presidential banter instead of fact, which is a pretty stupid thing to do.

    You really are stupid.
    You keep using that word. It does not mean what you think it means.
    There are only two possibilities; one is that we are alone in the universe, the other is that we are not.
    Both are terrifying.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev_Russell View Post
    Secondly, Neither of Trump's bans are based on nationality, they are based on faith.
    I'm *assuming* that you will explain how the travel ban is NOT based on nationality - by using the actual text of the travel ban.

    You know, our biggest threat from persons traveling to this country is terrorism - and as luck would have it, the terrorists who would do us harm by incredible coincidence happen to hail from majority Muslim nations - a little less than a third of all the world's nations.

    So it kind of goes without saying that ANY nation where we wish to curtail travel from is going to be majority Muslim. One of the biggest complaints - a stupid one, but the biggest - is - why don't we ban people from Egypt, or Saudi, or Nigeria, or Indonesia? Oh really? How come you DIDN'T mention China, or India or Germany or France? And among other reasons, it's because they're not exporting terrorism. We're not at threat from crazy Japanese who want to blow us up or run us down with a car. People bring UP Egypt or Saudi in a dumb response but they are pointing out what we all know - we are threatened by radical Muslims.

    We do not require improvement on our vetting process from these nations - because they are already cooperating with us since 9/11. These other nations - most of them - are not. So it is incumbent on US to take a break to improve the process.

    What is so goddamned horrible about making someone from say, Somalia wait an extra sixty days? It takes almost that long for me to obtain a visa for just about anywhere I travel.
    Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong". Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  3. #23
    Registered User Midnightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    I'm *assuming* that you will explain how the travel ban is NOT based on nationality - by using the actual text of the travel ban.

    You know, our biggest threat from persons traveling to this country is terrorism - and as luck would have it, the terrorists who would do us harm by incredible coincidence happen to hail from majority Muslim nations - a little less than a third of all the world's nations.

    So it kind of goes without saying that ANY nation where we wish to curtail travel from is going to be majority Muslim. One of the biggest complaints - a stupid one, but the biggest - is - why don't we ban people from Egypt, or Saudi, or Nigeria, or Indonesia? Oh really? How come you DIDN'T mention China, or India or Germany or France? And among other reasons, it's because they're not exporting terrorism. We're not at threat from crazy Japanese who want to blow us up or run us down with a car. People bring UP Egypt or Saudi in a dumb response but they are pointing out what we all know - we are threatened by radical Muslims.

    We do not require improvement on our vetting process from these nations - because they are already cooperating with us since 9/11. These other nations - most of them - are not. So it is incumbent on US to take a break to improve the process.

    What is so goddamned horrible about making someone from say, Somalia wait an extra sixty days? It takes almost that long for me to obtain a visa for just about anywhere I travel.
    can you show a terrorist attack in the USA that a person from one of these countries perpetrated?


    Its going to be hard to separate trump and his campaign's rhetoric from the ban.
    Trump supporter and former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani also went on TV in January, after the announcement of the first travel ban, and said: “When [Trump] first announced it, he said, ‘Muslim ban.’ He called me up. He said, ‘Put a commission together. Show me the right way to do it legally."
    http://time.com/4703232/trump-travel...rudy-giuliani/
    "once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"-TGD

  4. #24
    INGSOC GURPS's Avatar
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    campaign rhetoric
    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
    - Robert J. Hanlon.

    “There is a deeply anti-democratic undercurrent to much of the criticism of the new president, borne aloft by an assumption that democracy is too important to be left to the voters.”

    And if a statue can oppress you, then I submit that you have greater issues. - A West.

  5. #25
    Registered User Midnightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GURPS View Post



    campaign rhetoric
    If you don't want the court to think your travel ban is a muslim ban you shouldn't go around saying you are going to ban muslims before you issue your ban. Its kind of hard to convince logical people like judges that you aren't doing exactly what you said you were going to do.
    "once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"-TGD

  6. #26
    #*! boat! Gilligan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    What is so goddamned horrible about making someone from say, Somalia wait an extra sixty days? It takes almost that long for me to obtain a visa for just about anywhere I travel.
    That. All the other BS aside, there is that.

    At this point, I would hope that the "extreme vetting" is already implemented...how many days have elapsed since the original moratorium started before judges screwed around with it? Point being, at some point the ban becomes moot.
    You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. -Frank Zappa

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnightrider View Post
    If you don't want the court to think your travel ban is a muslim ban you shouldn't go around saying you are going to ban muslims before you issue your ban. Its kind of hard to convince logical people like judges that you aren't doing exactly what you said you were going to do.
    So - if you're from Somalia - but - you're NOT a Muslim - they just let you go straight through immigration, right? Same for all of the other nations - NOT Muslim, no problem?

    Oh, that ISN'T the case? There goes the argument.
    Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong". Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan View Post
    That. All the other BS aside, there is that.

    At this point, I would hope that the "extreme vetting" is already implemented...how many days have elapsed since the original moratorium started before judges screwed around with it? Point being, at some point the ban becomes moot.
    Could be - could be they've spent all this time fighting idiotic lawsuits. I have no idea.
    But it doesn't look like they have any intention of cooperating no matter how stupid they look.
    Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong". Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnightrider View Post
    If you don't want the court to think your travel ban is a muslim ban you shouldn't go around saying you are going to ban muslims before you issue your ban. Its kind of hard to convince logical people like judges that you aren't doing exactly what you said you were going to do.
    Something you say on the campaign trail is not the same as policy. Especially if it stops even ONE person who is not a Muslim.
    Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong". Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  10. #30
    Registered User Midnightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    So - if you're from Somalia - but - you're NOT a Muslim - they just let you go straight through immigration, right? Same for all of the other nations - NOT Muslim, no problem?

    Oh, that ISN'T the case? There goes the argument.
    I guess Trump should sign you up as his counsel
    "once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"-TGD

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