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Thread: Sessions: Marijuana only slightly less awful than heroin

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    So, I take it, prescription drugs should no longer be prescription, in your view?
    I'm not suggesting that at all. There's a difference between the government having oversight of these things and outright making them illegal. There is oversight on alcohol where people under the age of 21 can't buy it. I'm okay with that. For more addictive things, there should be oversight. But if I want to snort a line of cocaine while watching 'The Walking Dead', why should that be the government's business?

    Michael Jackson made some really bad choices in his life, and no laws that were aimed to protect him from abusing those chemicals prevented it. That's the risk of being free: there are going to be those that abuse it. My bet is most people have no desire to do cocaine, heroin, or meth... Of those that do, I suspect most just stay at home, away from everyone and destroy their bodies. Thin the heard. I have no desire for any of that crap. I have even less of a desire to trust the government to protect me from me. If I even get cancer that puts me in so much pain that I can't stand it, I will find whatever I can get my hands on to relieve the pain.
    "Never let the old man in." - Clint Eastwood quoting an old friend

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by PsyOps View Post
    I'll give you a reason for legitimate smoking of pot... because it's my body, and the government should have no damn business in telling me what I can and cannot ingest. As long as I am harming no one else, what stinking business is it of yours?

    If you give one damn about liberty, you will get that loud and clear.
    Standing o
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by PsyOps View Post
    I'm not suggesting that at all. There's a difference between the government having oversight of these things and outright making them illegal. There is oversight on alcohol where people under the age of 21 can't buy it. I'm okay with that. For more addictive things, there should be oversight. But if I want to snort a line of cocaine while watching 'The Walking Dead', why should that be the government's business?

    Michael Jackson made some really bad choices in his life, and no laws that were aimed to protect him from abusing those chemicals prevented it. That's the risk of being free: there are going to be those that abuse it. My bet is most people have no desire to do cocaine, heroin, or meth... Of those that do, I suspect most just stay at home, away from everyone and destroy their bodies. Thin the heard. I have no desire for any of that crap. I have even less of a desire to trust the government to protect me from me. If I even get cancer that puts me in so much pain that I can't stand it, I will find whatever I can get my hands on to relieve the pain.
    Ok, so from the point of view of your liberty argument, you're against liberty also. You just draw the liberty line at a different spot from where I draw it.

    All I asked is if they should be prescription or not. I did not say "illegal", I just said prescription. So, you're good with a regulation that says you can't have it unless it is prescribed to you, it would seem, since you say you're not suggesting at all that prescriptions should be a problem, only being "illegal". So, if cocaine required a prescription, you'd be good?
    There are only two possibilities; one is that we are alone in the universe, the other is that we are not.
    Both are terrifying.

  4. #84
    Registered User
    Member Since
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    23,253
    I don't really care if you shoot yourself. If you want to put a bullet in your head be my guest.
    I don't like the idea of having to deal with your overdoses.
    I don.t like going to homes to pick up the wife who has overdosed and the next week going to the house again and seeing the husband overdosed, and the 3 year old sleeping on the couch while the police and ambulance crew come in to try to save your life, so you can do it again. I don't like the stealing to buy the drugs. First steal from your own family and then from anyone else you can to buy that #### you want to put in your body. You become a burden on society as a whole.
    Listen to the scanner here in St Mary's County we are in a full fledged dope epidemic.The hospital is overburdened.
    Am I judging dope and Marijuana emotionally?? Damned right because I see it. I have watched Marijuana smokers in their dream world. I have seen dope addicts. damned right it's emotional watching people destroy themselves with this Bullsh1t.

    But you folks go ahead and say it's just recreational, or you have a back ache and need to smoke dope for it.
    I ride a motorcycle and I listen to the arguments of those who want helmet laws saying how if we are in an accident we become a burden if we don't wear helmets .Or seat belt laws, I personally hate seat belts, but it's the law.
    Well drugs laws are there for a reason too.

    What really pisses me off is if you get drunk and the law is called you go to jail
    If you overdose they take you to the hospital treat you and send you home.

    Now I don't make laws. ---probably a good thing--because if I did, if you overdosed you would tell the authorities who you bought the dope from or spend 6 months in jail.
    Your choice. End of rant my last word for the day on this subject.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Hijinx View Post
    I don.t like going to homes to pick up the wife who has overdosed and the next week going to the house again and seeing the husband overdosed, and the 3 year old sleeping on the couch while the police and ambulance crew come in to try to save your life, so you can do it again.
    No offense, but what ambulance crews like or don't like is irrelevant.

    I don't like the stealing to buy the drugs. First steal from your own family and then from anyone else you can to buy that #### you want to put in your body.
    Again, stealing is a crime in and of itself, and irrelevant.

    You become a burden on society as a whole.
    NOW you're on to something. Overall crime rates definitely go up. Welfare rates definitely go up. Workplace accidents which harm others definitely go up.

    What really pisses me off is if you get drunk and the law is called you go to jail
    If you overdose they take you to the hospital treat you and send you home.
    This is part of the concept of treating drugs as a medical issue instead of a behavioral issue. Isn't that right, Larry?
    There are only two possibilities; one is that we are alone in the universe, the other is that we are not.
    Both are terrifying.

  6. #86
    Registered User
    Member Since
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,586
    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    What really pisses me off is if you get drunk and the law is called you go to jail
    If you overdose they take you to the hospital treat you and send you home.
    This is part of the concept of treating drugs as a medical issue instead of a behavioral issue. Isn't that right, Larry?
    They take drunks to the hospital too, and forget to come and get them afterwards. If someone in either group did something worthy of being picked up by police, but they are left at the hospital rather than booked, that's because the local police have decided they have better things to do and not a matter of law.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    NOW you're on to something. Overall crime rates definitely go up. Welfare rates definitely go up. Workplace accidents which harm others definitely go up.

    This is part of the concept of treating drugs as a medical issue instead of a behavioral issue. Isn't that right, Larry?

    To the former, the prohibitionist model, man, how else to say this to point out, yet again, the obvious? We TRIED it. We KNOW what happens. Blatant disrespect for the law? Check. Mind numbing explosion in violence? Check. In what universe does legalization equate to overall crime rates going UP???? Next, I suppose you could argue welfare goes up because everyone employed in the prohibition business will be out of work but that's to say "Gosh, we can't do without criminals! What will the cops and lawyers and jailers do!?" More accidents at work? This gets back to the prohibitionist argument that ending prohibition equates to making public intoxication OK when we do NOT have prohibition on alcohol and we DO have social laws as to where and when consumption is ok. To your last, this is the entire ball of wax; if you treat drug use as behavior, if you, effectively, treat the entire chain from growing to harvesting to distributing to sales and use as crime, that's a LOT of money and a lot of jobs created out of thin air. If you take ALL those problems and make them go AWAY via legalization, save one, problems around actual consumption, then, you're treating THE problem instead of creating more AND, guess what? There's a whole new industry; treatment. Would we rather have cops kicking in doors to bust people along the supply and demand chain and fight the laws of supply and demand every single step of the way including the violence that costs a cops life over people wanting to get high (or drunk?) or have those cops writing tickets for public intoxication? Do we want more jailers or more people working in treatment centers? On down the list.
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Hijinx View Post
    I don't really care if you shoot yourself. If you want to put a bullet in your head be my guest.
    I don't like the idea of having to deal with your overdoses.
    I don.t like going to homes to pick up the wife who has overdosed and the next week going to the house again and seeing the husband overdosed, and the 3 year old sleeping on the couch while the police and ambulance crew come in to try to save your life, so you can do it again. I don't like the stealing to buy the drugs. First steal from your own family and then from anyone else you can to buy that #### you want to put in your body. You become a burden on society as a whole.
    Listen to the scanner here in St Mary's County we are in a full fledged dope epidemic.The hospital is overburdened.
    Am I judging dope and Marijuana emotionally?? Damned right because I see it. I have watched Marijuana smokers in their dream world. I have seen dope addicts. damned right it's emotional watching people destroy themselves with this Bullsh1t.

    .
    This is an outstanding pile of horse####. Truly epic in it's scope and breadth but painfully boring in how ill considered and trite it is. We HAVE ALL of those problems PLUS violence PLUS corruption PLUS cynicism towards the law RIGHT NOW because of....

    ...PROHIBITION.


    Yes, legalization means we will have the same health problem and it means we will have more of it, most likely. How much more? I dunno. There are more living, healthy EX smokers now than smokers. Education and social standards DO work. There is EVERY reason to believe any increase will be manageable. On the flip side, legalization means ALL the violence and corruption and cynicism towards the law and all of those costs goes AWAY. ALL of it. ALL OF THAT GOES AWAY just as it did the last time we pulled our heads out of our asses and ended the last idiotic prohibition.

    I'm happy to see you state your thoughts are emotion based. Great. Feel like you feel. I don't want stoned people all over the place and I don't want kids suffering and all of those horrors but we HAVE them now. I'd like to lose the violence and corruption and all of the horrors directly attributable to prohibition.

    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    Ok, so from the point of view of your liberty argument, you're against liberty also. You just draw the liberty line at a different spot from where I draw it.

    All I asked is if they should be prescription or not. I did not say "illegal", I just said prescription. So, you're good with a regulation that says you can't have it unless it is prescribed to you, it would seem, since you say you're not suggesting at all that prescriptions should be a problem, only being "illegal". So, if cocaine required a prescription, you'd be good?
    You seem to have a problem differentiating between ‘regulated’ and ‘banned’.

    You’re also changing the discussion to what you want it to be. This thread is about pot – and perhaps other drugs that are illegal under any circumstances. If I want advice from a doctor about the pain I’m in, I should go to that doctor to get his/her advice on what medications to take. However, if I want to take Percocet to get high rather than drink alcohol, what business is that of yours? What causes the problem here is the legality of it. Law suits. If a doctor over-prescribes Percocet and the person gets addicted, and eventually dies of an overdose, the doctor can be held liable. We need to remove this from the equation, and start holding the individual accountable for their own actions. You’d prefer to remove personal accountability and ban #### because you believe the vast majority of us are too stupid to manage our lives. I happen to believe that if people knew that they are responsible to themselves, a lot of these problems get resolved on their own.

    I don’t want anyone getting addicted to anything that could result in their death. But I want less a government that has determined all of us unable to manage our own lives. So they take responsibility, creating an environment of liability that removes personal responsibility.
    "Never let the old man in." - Clint Eastwood quoting an old friend

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gude View Post
    To the former, the prohibitionist model, man, how else to say this to point out, yet again, the obvious? We TRIED it. We KNOW what happens. Blatant disrespect for the law? Check. Mind numbing explosion in violence? Check. In what universe does legalization equate to overall crime rates going UP???? Next, I suppose you could argue welfare goes up because everyone employed in the prohibition business will be out of work but that's to say "Gosh, we can't do without criminals! What will the cops and lawyers and jailers do!?" More accidents at work? This gets back to the prohibitionist argument that ending prohibition equates to making public intoxication OK when we do NOT have prohibition on alcohol and we DO have social laws as to where and when consumption is ok. To your last, this is the entire ball of wax; if you treat drug use as behavior, if you, effectively, treat the entire chain from growing to harvesting to distributing to sales and use as crime, that's a LOT of money and a lot of jobs created out of thin air. If you take ALL those problems and make them go AWAY via legalization, save one, problems around actual consumption, then, you're treating THE problem instead of creating more AND, guess what? There's a whole new industry; treatment. Would we rather have cops kicking in doors to bust people along the supply and demand chain and fight the laws of supply and demand every single step of the way including the violence that costs a cops life over people wanting to get high (or drunk?) or have those cops writing tickets for public intoxication? Do we want more jailers or more people working in treatment centers? On down the list.
    We did try prohibition on one product, and we failed. Where we really failed is to learn why that method of enforcement failed.

    I don't want to continue the failed model. I don't want to go after the growers, the sellers. I don't want to control the means of production (:snark: ). I want to go after the user. Have a means-tested fine and/or community service program that goes after the USER, and really hurts the USER, until you have so very few people willing to USE that there is no point in growing or trying to sell on the street. If we really wanted to control the drug problem, this is what we would do.

    The problem with treating it as a behavioral issue, a medical issue, is that we know theft is also a behavior. Child rape? Behavior. Arson? Behavior. You know what makes them all the same? They're all illegal behaviors. When you take an illegal behavioral action, you must be aware there are potential consequences. When the potential of facing those consequences is high enough, the action no longer seems like a viable option.
    There are only two possibilities; one is that we are alone in the universe, the other is that we are not.
    Both are terrifying.

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