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Thread: Trump Budget proposes cutting funding for the Chesapeake Bay Clean up

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by CalvertNewb View Post
    I don't really get your example. Are you saying the funds are just used to party and not for actual bay cleanup?

    To me it seems that coordinating six states and DC which make up the Bay watershed would make sense to fall under Federal jurisdiction ( less waste and redundancy)then having all 6 and DC negotiating and organizing among themselves.


    That.
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  2. #42
    $73 mil, 6 million people, 2 million households, $36 bill, per year per household.
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan View Post
    That's even worse. Having the Federal government acting as middle man is grossly inefficient. Period. The bloated mess desparately needs to be cut down in size and scope.
    For this particular issue, if it wasn't for for the feds, PA would have no reason to do its share to cleaning up the bay. There is a role for the federal government in this, but it isn't that of paymaster. The role should be to force the states to do their part.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by officeguy View Post
    For this particular issue, if it wasn't for for the feds, PA would have no reason to do its share to cleaning up the bay. There is a role for the federal government in this, but it isn't that of paymaster. The role should be to force the states to do their part.
    He who holds the purse strings is boss.

    How do you get PA to pay a 'fair' share from the Conowingo and how much is released from there? We say it needs to be dredged and cleaned up and quit sending all that blocked up crap down stream. They say it doesn't. If they did agree, then they'd look right on upstream to New York and want them to pitch in.
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  5. #45
    Board Mommy vraiblonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalvertNewb View Post
    When the fed could have one program.
    ...with bloat and bureaucracy and politicians who don't really give a damn and there's no real way for us to hold them accountable.

    So far I'm unimpressed with "federal programs". They don't seem to accomplish anything other than give politicians a weapon and line the pockets of cronies. The closer a program is to We the People, the more oversight we will have. Local is closer than district; district is closer than state; state is closer than federal.

    Why should someone in Lincoln, NE or Anchorage, AK pay for our bay cleanup? Or more realistically, line the pockets of MD/VA/etc fat cats?

    As much money as has been funneled to these programs, the problems should be solved by now. I note that they're not.

    Here is CBF's "Offices & Organizations" page:
    http://www.cbf.org/about-cbf/offices-operations

    They state clearly they've been "working" on this for over forty years. According to their financial report for 2016, over $10 million went just toward salaries and fringe benefits. If you open on their "How We Save the Bay" link at the top of the page and click any of the subcats, you'll find the answer is, "We talk a lot." If you look under "Communities", you'll see that one of their projects was to hold a Living Waters Summit, where they prayed for the Bay to be restored and made suggestions to create even more committees of legislators to "acknowledge and prioritize the Chesapeake Bay and its importance to Virginia."

    I think most of us agree that we want to keep the Bay healthy and viable, if for no other reason than that we love our local oysters and crabs. But obviously this bloated bureaucratic "foundation" isn't accomplishing anything of note and they're spending a chit ton of money doing it. This is a perfect example of how we can cut our federal spending and balance our federal budget, and it is only one of many.
    "Too much agreement kills a chat."
    ~Eldridge Cleaver

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    ...with bloat and bureaucracy and politicians who don't really give a damn and there's no real way for us to hold them accountable.

    So far I'm unimpressed with "federal programs". They don't seem to accomplish anything other than give politicians a weapon and line the pockets of cronies. The closer a program is to We the People, the more oversight we will have. Local is closer than district; district is closer than state; state is closer than federal.

    Why should someone in Lincoln, NE or Anchorage, AK pay for our bay cleanup? Or more realistically, line the pockets of MD/VA/etc fat cats?

    As much money as has been funneled to these programs, the problems should be solved by now. I note that they're not.

    Here is CBF's "Offices & Organizations" page:
    http://www.cbf.org/about-cbf/offices-operations

    They state clearly they've been "working" on this for over forty years. According to their financial report for 2016, over $10 million went just toward salaries and fringe benefits. If you open on their "How We Save the Bay" link at the top of the page and click any of the subcats, you'll find the answer is, "We talk a lot." If you look under "Communities", you'll see that one of their projects was to hold a Living Waters Summit, where they prayed for the Bay to be restored and made suggestions to create even more committees of legislators to "acknowledge and prioritize the Chesapeake Bay and its importance to Virginia."

    I think most of us agree that we want to keep the Bay healthy and viable, if for no other reason than that we love our local oysters and crabs. But obviously this bloated bureaucratic "foundation" isn't accomplishing anything of note and they're spending a chit ton of money doing it. This is a perfect example of how we can cut our federal spending and balance our federal budget, and it is only one of many.

    So how would you propose the MD, Va and Del hold Ny , New Jersey and Pa accountable for their negative contributions to the bay if not federally. Do you think that if all those issues are left up to states they have any incentive to not dump in rivers that lead down to us? I believe that just prioritizes those states to worry about their immediate area and not think about how it effects us down river. And I don't think it is fair to burden the states that touch the bay with the cleanup when others contribute as well


    Some mentioned the Save the bay foundation and their overspending. I agree. Programs like praying for the health of the bay are ridiculous, to me it makes more sense to focus on improving the current system and assessing wage then to scrap funding all together

  7. #47
    Bird Dog Bird Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alicejohn View Post
    What is the answer?
    One of the main solutions is getting rid of the nitrogen...its not a farmer problem..it a sewage treatment plant problem thats to expensive to fix. 72 Million is not going to cut it.
    When you lie down with dogs, you're going to get fleas....


    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    How is it that you don't see how crazy you sound when you do this?

  8. #48
    Honorary SMIB NorthBeachPerso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird Dog View Post
    One of the main solutions is getting rid of the nitrogen...its not a farmer problem..it a sewage treatment plant problem thats to expensive to fix. 72 Million is not going to cut it.

    The sewer treatment problem is one which the Flush Tax addresses. As far expensive goes we're just finishing up the ENR upgrade at the regional plant in Chesapeake Beach and hard figures have been difficult to winkle out but it's about $27M. That included a rebuild of the original plant equipment, construction of a 1M gallon overflow tank and a capacity increase for Chesapeake Beach (North Beach, Calvert County and Anne Arundel County didn't participate in that) as well as the ENR processes.

    By comparison Ellicott City's number is $172M and Galena, on the Eastern Shore, was $3 or $4M (very small town, 600 residents).

    Nitrogen inputs are a problem, not so much in Maryland, which is mostly crop farming, but more so from the dairy and stock farms in the watershed primarily in PA.

    That's not to mention all the failing septic systems and dog #### in people's yards.
    I liked Calvert County better when there were only two stoplights.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gude View Post
    He who holds the purse strings is boss.

    How do you get PA to pay a 'fair' share from the Conowingo and how much is released from there? We say it needs to be dredged and cleaned up and quit sending all that blocked up crap down stream. They say it doesn't. If they did agree, then they'd look right on upstream to New York and want them to pitch in.
    I hate to say it, but through the clean water act, litigation and the heavy hand of the EPA. It would be great if states were run by people with a horizon that goes beyond the next budget cycle and election but they are not. In such an ideal world, inter-state issues could be resolved with compacts among the states. As long as states like PA dont give a #### about what happens to their neighbors, it'll take the feds to force everyone to sit down on these matters.

  10. #50
    Board Mommy vraiblonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalvertNewb View Post
    So how would you propose the MD, Va and Del hold Ny , New Jersey and Pa accountable for their negative contributions to the bay if not federally.
    Holding them accountable and funding their "effort" are two different things. Fining the states for blatant ecological irresponsibility could be (and perhaps is, I'd have to look it up) perfectly feasible. How the states then hold the corporations, farmers, waste treatment facilities, whoever, accountable is up to them.

    The problem you run into is the palm greasing and corruption. "Oh, well this guy is exempt because he blah blah blah (translation: he contributed a lot of money to my campaign and he's my sister's husband and I own stock in their company)." But you're going to have that on any level, and it's easier to root out and punish the more locally it occurs because the players are lower level and the stakes aren't as high, plus it's harder for them to cover it up and easier for the voters to give them the boot.

    My little dream world is made up of people who do the right thing and punish those who don't, regardless of affiliation. It's based on honesty and integrity, and has no room for politics, and power, and money.

    *sigh*

    I don't know the solution or if there even is one. What I do know is that throwing money at the problem isn't working, and currently the states aren't being held accountable for ecological irresponsibility. All we're getting for our money right now is highly paid foundation heads and lawyers who talk a lot and hold prayer meetings in hopes that God will fix the problem. That's not a good investment, in my opinion.

    So perhaps punishing their lack of results by cutting their federal funding is the way to go, and if they want that money back they have to earn it.
    "Too much agreement kills a chat."
    ~Eldridge Cleaver

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