Time to Investigate Obama, not Just Trump

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Time to Investigate Obama, not Just Trump



What appears at this writing is that Trump transition team members and possibly Trump himself had their identities revealed, were "unmasked" in the parlance, while foreign diplomats were being surveilled. The identities of American citizens were not sufficiently "minimized," as they are required to be by law. This is a crime one would assume would put the perpetrators in prison. So far it hasn't. More than that, such behavior is a grave threat to a free society, to all of us.

In effect, Trump was wiretapped -- if not in the corny, old sense of the word, something very close. Technologically, he was wiretapped, as were several (actually many) others.

A fair amount of this happened not long before Barack Obama suddenly changed the rules regarding raw intelligence, for the first time ever allowing the NSA to share its data with 16 other intelligence agencies, thus making the dissemination of said data (i. e. leaking) many times more likely. That was done on January 12, 2017, just three scant days before Trump's inauguration. Why did the then president finally decide to make that particular change at that extremely late date, rather than on one of the previous seven years and three hundred fifty-three days of his presidency? You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes or Watson to smell a rat. Something's rotten somewhere -- and it's not Denmark.

Whether Barack Obama ordered the surveillance of Donald Trump during the transition is not the question. He would never have had to. In fact, he would have been highly unlikely to have done so for obvious legal and practical/political reasons. Instead, supporters of the then president in a position to authorize or activate such surveillance would normally know or assume his wishes anyway without having to be told and could act accordingly.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
A fair amount of this happened not long before Barack Obama suddenly changed the rules regarding raw intelligence, for the first time ever allowing the NSA to share its data with 16 other intelligence agencies, thus making the dissemination of said data (i. e. leaking) many times more likely. That was done on January 12, 2017, just three scant days before Trump's inauguration. Why did the then president finally decide to make that particular change at that extremely late date, rather than on one of the previous seven years and three hundred fifty-three days of his presidency?

Again, red flag although their dates are slightly off. There's no normal reason to make a change a few days before the change in administration. Most presidents are just waiting it out at that point.
 

tommyjo

New Member
What a load.

The foreign diplomat was under surveillance...not Mr. Trump. Mr. Trump WAS NOT the subject of surveillance not in a corny fashion or technically. Everyone who has been asked that question (federal employee, politician-Democrat OR Republican) unanimously agrees. Even that idiot Nunes specifically said so yesterday.

Whether or not Barack Obama ordered the non-existent surveillance is exactly the question...because it is exactly the accusation made by Mr. Trump.
 

warneckutz

Well-Known Member
What a load.

The foreign diplomat was under surveillance...not Mr. Trump. Mr. Trump WAS NOT the subject of surveillance not in a corny fashion or technically. Everyone who has been asked that question (federal employee, politician-Democrat OR Republican) unanimously agrees. Even that idiot Nunes specifically said so yesterday.

Whether or not Barack Obama ordered the non-existent surveillance is exactly the question...because it is exactly the accusation made by Mr. Trump.

Tough talk, bro.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
What a load.

The foreign diplomat was under surveillance...not Mr. Trump. Mr. Trump WAS NOT the subject of surveillance

As I understand the law, it makes not a whit of difference *IF* an American is surveilled. If an American is part of it, they must be removed from the equation - you can't spy on Americans.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Mr. Trump WAS NOT the subject of surveillance ....

Yep that is what was said in the article ... glad you agree :yay:

- communications were vacuumed up in the surveillance or Foreigners .... Identities of Americans were unmasked and leaked to the Press



..because it is exactly the accusation made by Mr. Trump.

only if a retard like you takes the phrase 'tapped my wires' literally ... but it did happen while Obama was the HMFIC
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
only if a retard like you takes the phrase 'tapped my wires' literally ... but it did happen while Obama was the HMFIC

You're right but so is she.

What she was referencing was that Trump's claim was that Obama had he - Trump - surveilled. While it is obvious to even a casual observer that Trump and his people were under surveillance as you say, any decent lawyer counters with the point that there's no PROOF Trump was the subject and there are claims it was others who were the subjects.
 

black dog

Free America
What a load.

The foreign diplomat was under surveillance...not Mr. Trump. Mr. Trump WAS NOT the subject of surveillance not in a corny fashion or technically. Everyone who has been asked that question (federal employee, politician-Democrat OR Republican) unanimously agrees. Even that idiot Nunes specifically said so yesterday.

Whether or not Barack Obama ordered the non-existent surveillance is exactly the question...because it is exactly the accusation made by Mr. Trump.

Please, nothing happens in politics that wasn't planned. Nothing.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
As I understand the law, it makes not a whit of difference *IF* an American is surveilled. If an American is part of it, they must be removed from the equation - you can't spy on Americans.

Not true. They can spy on Americans if their communication is inadvertently tied to that of a foreign person they are watching/recording.

Yep that is what was said in the article ... glad you agree :yay:

- communications were vacuumed up in the surveillance or Foreigners .... Identities of Americans were unmasked and leaked to the Press





only if a retard like you takes the phrase 'tapped my wires' literally ... but it did happen while Obama was the HMFIC

Call me a retard too I guess....for taking Trump at his word.

It should be no surprise given the mental gymnastics needed to decipher Trump's tweets and comments since he began running for President. Trying to figure what he meant, though his words are pretty clear.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
You're right but so is she.

What she was referencing was that Trump's claim was that Obama had he - Trump - surveilled. While it is obvious to even a casual observer that Trump and his people were under surveillance as you say, any decent lawyer counters with the point that there's no PROOF Trump was the subject and there are claims it was others who were the subjects.

No proof that Trump was the subject of the surveillance.
No proof he wasn't either.


What????? We are going to take the word of people who illegally leaked information?
I don't think so.
 

Toxick

Splat
Call me a retard too I guess....for taking Trump at his word.




Anyone who takes Trump at his word has clearly not been paying attention.

I do find it odd though how many people accuse him of lying and lying and lying - yet when they discover that he bent the truth, it's all shock and outrage, rather than "Meh - I thought as much".


Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that we're finding out that Trump's little wiretapping blast on Obama contains as much truth as it does (i.e. I thought it was a flat out lie to distract from other sewage he was floating in).
I don't know the fine details of the law - and I care even less, but I'm starting to think Trump is less of a liar (merely more of a blowhard) than I thought.
 

littlelady

God bless the USA
If he didn't tweet the Press would bury him in a week whereas his tweets may take a little longer.
I wish we had a free and fair press and he didn't have to tweet.

I need to go to bed, but I saw your post. This 'tweet' thing is so insane, but I get that Trump can stay in touch with Americans and contradict the media. I don't think we have had a fair press for many years. Think about FDR's condition hidden from Americans. To me, the bottom line is that our Gov ignores our Constitution whenever they can. That makes them hypocrites and non-patriots; and for some reason, a notion that they are above it all. That's all. Nite, nite.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member

From the article:
In fact, there has been no confirmation that Obama was spying on Trump, a charge the president first made earlier this month.
Nunes on Wednesday said that he has seen intelligence showing that the intelligence community incidentally collected information on members of Trump's transition team during routine surveillance of foreign targets.

Trump's fundraising machine, like the NRCC, has used the Nunes claims to argue that Trump's initial claims about Obama were correct.
 
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