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Thread: Trump Is 100% Vindicated On Wiretapping, and 7 Other Things You Should Know

  1. #11
    Board Mommy vraiblonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn View Post
    It's not splitting hairs, nor is it illegal.

    This is the same intelligence apparatus' power no one cared about until now. "If [Trump] has nothing to hide, what's the problem?"
    I give up, Watergate, what *is* the problem?
    "Too much agreement kills a chat."
    ~Eldridge Cleaver

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn View Post
    It's not splitting hairs, nor is it illegal.
    Then if it is found to be true, that will be their defense, no doubt. As in, yeah, so - we lied about it. It's still legal.

    This is the same intelligence apparatus' power no one cared about until now. "If [Trump] has nothing to hide, what's the problem?"
    Guessing you wouldn't have anything to hide if they spied on YOU, then?

    I don't agree with that defense.
    IF he has something illegal to hide, then spying might be justified.
    But if he has NOTHING to hide, spying is not justified.
    Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong". Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    I give up, Watergate, what *is* the problem?
    But this isn't remotely the same thing as Watergate, is it?

    If it was, either Obama sucks at it, or Trump has nothing that could be used against him.
    Crybaby Cripplecrow Hanging on a Monkey's Toe Club

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    Then if it is found to be true, that will be their defense, no doubt. As in, yeah, so - we lied about it. It's still legal.



    Guessing you wouldn't have anything to hide if they spied on YOU, then?

    I don't agree with that defense.
    IF he has something illegal to hide, then spying might be justified.
    But if he has NOTHING to hide, spying is not justified.
    The NSA, CIA, and FBI HAVE been spying on us. Almost ALL of us. That's my point.

    These revelations aren't new. They came out with Snowden, Manning, Wikileaks, etc. Multiple times it's been said that they can, and do, spy on Americans under the guise of spying on a foreign person.

    I agree no American should be subject to warrantless spying, but when it was brought up multiple times over the years, many across the country and many on this very forum simply didn't care because "if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't care."
    Crybaby Cripplecrow Hanging on a Monkey's Toe Club

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn View Post
    But this isn't remotely the same thing as Watergate, is it?

    If it was, either Obama sucks at it, or Trump has nothing that could be used against him.
    Just so I understand you... because there are some that take the position that they have nothing to hide, therefore being snooped on is no big deal, you have decided that the surveillance of Trump - a guy you adamantly oppose - is now suddenly no big deal. Given your past outrage at our government's overreach, why the lack of outrage here?
    "Never let the old man in." - Clint Eastwood quoting an old friend

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by PsyOps View Post
    Just so I understand you... because there are some that take the position that they have nothing to hide, therefore being snooped on is no big deal, you have decided that the surveillance of Trump - a guy you adamantly oppose - is now suddenly no big deal. Given your past outrage at our government's overreach, why the lack of outrage here?
    Oh, don't mistake what I've been saying as me agreeing or thinking it's suddenly no big deal.

    The cows are finally coming home, and civil libertarians have warned big government citizens that this power given to the government could lead to instances like this.

    We were the ones wary when Bush pushed the TSA. We were worried when FISA act was established (including Section 702, which gives the govt. the ability to gather info on American citizens as long as their target is foreign). Democrats, ACLU, etc. warned about this and everyone believed that this act and these abilities were there to protect them.

    I've NEVER agreed with it. What I don't want to happen is confusion on what went on here. Trump was not wiretapped by Obama. Twist his words or meanings all you (royal "you") want, but Obama did not spy on Trump and as much as many want to believe it, Obama doesn't have that much power over an intelligence apparatus with seemingly little to no oversight. It's not "wiretapping" in the sense of Watergate, but it is our govt. spying on American citizens. The same thing happened with Obama (reports say Obama's calls were intercepted over 1,200 times) and if a govt. agency abused their power and leaked information that was legally obtained, that's a problem. A problem some of us saw coming.

    So now what? Is Trump going to curtail the powers of the FBI, NSA, or CIA? Will he focus his Tweets to something a bit more factual like the powers of his intelligence agencies?
    Crybaby Cripplecrow Hanging on a Monkey's Toe Club

  7. #17
    Registered User Midnightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    To no surprise you are doing PRECISELY what the article describes - splitting hairs over word definitions.
    He was spied upon or surveilled. Illegally and somehow through the behest of the former administration.

    The rest is word games.
    Even nunes says whatever he saw was collected legally. The evidence of said surveillance is supposed to be provided today.
    "once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"-TGD

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnightrider View Post
    Even nunes says whatever he saw was collected legally. The evidence of said surveillance is supposed to be provided today.
    I haven't heard anyone say otherwise. I have heard people say it never happened, Trump is wrong, nothing to see here, move along.

    So, "It never happened and even if it did, OK, it did but it was legal and even if it was illegal to 'unmask people' OK, it was illegal to unmask people, and even if it was, no law's were broken in giving it to reporters, OK, so a few laws were broken but Barack Obama didn't know anything about it...OK, so, he had to know that someone in the WH got ahold of this, OK, so, he probably knows but HE would NEVER personally go to Trump Tower and set up the actual, specific equipment to spy on Trump so, no story here!"

    Gosh, if only these folks were around to defend Nixon. "He didn't do the break in, ergo..."
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn View Post
    So now what? Is Trump going to curtail the powers of the FBI, NSA, or CIA? Will he focus his Tweets to something a bit more factual like the powers of his intelligence agencies?
    Hell no. He's gonna do what Obama did; spy on people.
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  10. #20
    Board Mommy vraiblonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gude View Post
    I haven't heard anyone say otherwise. I have heard people say it never happened, Trump is wrong, nothing to see here, move along.

    So, "It never happened and even if it did, OK, it did but it was legal and even if it was illegal to 'unmask people' OK, it was illegal to unmask people, and even if it was, no law's were broken in giving it to reporters, OK, so a few laws were broken but Barack Obama didn't know anything about it...OK, so, he had to know that someone in the WH got ahold of this, OK, so, he probably knows but HE would NEVER personally go to Trump Tower and set up the actual, specific equipment to spy on Trump so, no story here!"

    Gosh, if only these folks were around to defend Nixon. "He didn't do the break in, ergo..."
    This exactly ^^^
    "Too much agreement kills a chat."
    ~Eldridge Cleaver

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