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Thread: Trump Is 100% Vindicated On Wiretapping, and 7 Other Things You Should Know

  1. #1
    INGSOC GURPS's Avatar
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    Trump Is 100% Vindicated On Wiretapping, and 7 Other Things You Should Know

    Trump Is 100% Vindicated On Wiretapping, and 7 Other Things You Should Know


    Yeppers, I said 100% vindicated, and those who disagree are either being stubbornly hyper-literal about the word "wiretap," or the placing of a "physical wiretap," or Obama himself placing the wiretap, or standing by the point Ben Shapiro makes that Trump is still wrong because the surveillance was "incidental."

    I'll touch on the "incidental" issue at length in the points below, but to immediately address Ben's argument, even if the collection was incidental, once the unmasking and dissemination of that "incidental" information occurs, that is the Obama administration illegally targeting Trump using surveillance, and that is the exact same thing as outright spying. And being illegally spied on was, of course, Trump's overall claim.

    As far as the THIS WASN'T A WIRETAP nonsense, it reminds me of someone accusing a 70-year-old (Trump's age) of lying when he claims someone stole his record collection after the bad guy is found only with the old man's iPod. You said records! Where's the vinyl! Where's the vinyl! Where's the vinyl!

    Not for a second did I imagine Trump meant an actual physical phone tap – you know, like you'd see Mike Connors do on "Mannix." Welcome to the 21st Century, pedants!

    Anyway, if we're going to obsess over definitions, this is an excerpt from a 2010 MIT book called "Privacy On The Line," which clearly shows that the word "wiretap" fits the exact definition we are talking about:

    Wiretapping is the traditional term for interception of telephone conversations. This should not be taken too literally. The word is no longer restricted to communications traveling by wire, and contemporary wiretaps are more commonly placed on radio links [ed. cell phones] or inside telephone offices. The meaning has also broadened in that the thing being tapped need no longer be a telephone call in the classic sense; it may be some other form of electronic communication, such as a fax or data.

    Compared with the more precise but more general phrase "communications interception," the word "wiretapping" has two connotations. Much the stronger of these is that a wiretap is aimed at a particular target, in sharp contrast to the "vacuum cleaner" interception widely practiced by national intelligence agencies. The weaker connotation is that it is being done by the police. [ed. Big hat tip to Stuart Dean]
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  2. #2
    Wrong...as usual....

    This is what the President put in writing:

    Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!
    and this:

    Is it legal for a sitting President to be "wire tapping" a race for president prior to an election? Turned down by court earlier. A NEW LOW!
    and this:

    How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!
    There is no evidence...none, even Mr. Nunes stated there is NO evidence (NONE)...that Mr. Obama wiretapped or ordered surveillance of Mr. Trump inside or outside of Trump Tower. The director of the FBI, the Depart of Justice and the intelligence agencies have all unanimously and unambiguously stated that there are no facts to support Mr. Trump's claim...NONE.

    The definition one chooses to use for "wiretap"...or trying to redefine the word "incidental" doesn't change the facts that there is no evidence to support Mr. Trump's claim.

    So you can post all the horsesh!t you want from your propaganda sheets...the facts aren't going to change...there is no evidence to support Mr. Trump's claim that he was the subject of an illegal surveillance operation that was ordered by the previous President.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyjo View Post
    The definition one chooses to use for "wiretap"...or trying to redefine the word "incidental"
    To no surprise you are doing PRECISELY what the article describes - splitting hairs over word definitions.
    He was spied upon or surveilled. Illegally and somehow through the behest of the former administration.

    The rest is word games.
    Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong". Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    To no surprise you are doing PRECISELY what the article describes - splitting hairs over word definitions.
    He was spied upon or surveilled. Illegally and somehow through the behest of the former administration.

    The rest is word games.
    It's like arguing with children... Or Bubba... "Depends on what your definition of the word "is" is"

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    To no surprise you are doing PRECISELY what the article describes - splitting hairs over word definitions.
    He was spied upon or surveilled. Illegally and somehow through the behest of the former administration.

    The rest is word games.
    Taking the man for what he said. Not only what he said, but what he typed, multiple times, isn't playing word games.

    He wants to be right, his voters want him to be right, but it doesn't change the fact that no matter how much someone twists what he meant....he's still wrong.
    Crybaby Cripplecrow Hanging on a Monkey's Toe Club

  6. #6
    Board Mommy vraiblonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyjo View Post
    There is no evidence...none, even Mr. Nunes stated there is NO evidence (NONE)...that Mr. Obama wiretapped or ordered surveillance of Mr. Trump inside or outside of Trump Tower. The director of the FBI, the Depart of Justice and the intelligence agencies have all unanimously and unambiguously stated that there are no facts to support Mr. Trump's claim...NONE.

    The definition one chooses to use for "wiretap"...or trying to redefine the word "incidental" doesn't change the facts that there is no evidence to support Mr. Trump's claim.

    So you can post all the horsesh!t you want from your propaganda sheets...the facts aren't going to change...there is no evidence to support Mr. Trump's claim that he was the subject of an illegal surveillance operation that was ordered by the previous President.


    Does that hurt?
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  7. #7
    Board Mommy vraiblonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn View Post
    Taking the man for what he said. Not only what he said, but what he typed, multiple times, isn't playing word games.
    Sure it is. Or more accurately, it's splitting hairs.

    The new excuse is, "Oh, we weren't trying to spy on Trump, we were only spying on his campaign people and advisors. We just happened to get him in the process."

    Doesn't matter. Still illegal.

    "Oh, Obama didn't set up the surveillance, his people did."

    Doesn't matter. Still illegal and he's still responsible.

    "Oh, Obama didn't order the surveillance, his Chief of Staff did."

    Doesn't matter. Still illegal and he's still responsible.

    So sure, we can go through some legalistic multipage explanation...which will be a really tedious way of saying "Obama had Trump under surveillance and tapped his phones." No matter how you spin it, it's still an invasion of privacy, unethical and most likely illegal, an enormous abuse of power., and at Obama's direction. Oh, and? Obama and his Democrat cronies shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. I get tired of these people abusing their power and walking away scot free like some ####ing third world dictator.
    "Too much agreement kills a chat."
    ~Eldridge Cleaver

  8. #8
    So, we know 'we', under President Obama, spied on numerous foreign leaders including their cell phone conversations.

    We know 'we', under President Obama, spied on the press.

    We know 'we', under President Obama, spied on sitting members of congress.

    We know 'we', under President Bush, merrily accepted the TSA, DHS and Patriot Act along with numerous revisions and amendments specifically to be able to spy on ourselves and everyone else and that he, and his successor, didn't create all this power for nothing. We didn't accept subordinating numerous parts of the US Constitution, effectively making it useless, just very legally, other than that pesky amendment process, expressly and specifically to spy on everyone and everything, all in the name of national SECURITY, just to leave that bad boy sitting on a lift in the garage.

    What are the chances that Donald Trump, in a massively contentious election, and having won it against most of our governing systems wishes, was the ONLY person on the planet NOT tapped???


    We're playing word games here. One of the things that Obama probably told Trump in their visits was "Hey, bro. Nothing personal but you might wanna be a little more careful about a few things in the future. The cool part is that you'll be the one reading and hearing about all this stuff now. Just keep in mind it's how we keep one another honest to some extent. To #### up the franchise, know what I'm saying? It's how we keep some sort of control around here. Have fun!"
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    Sure it is. Or more accurately, it's splitting hairs.

    The new excuse is, "Oh, we weren't trying to spy on Trump, we were only spying on his campaign people and advisors. We just happened to get him in the process."

    Doesn't matter. Still illegal.

    "Oh, Obama didn't set up the surveillance, his people did."

    Doesn't matter. Still illegal and he's still responsible.

    "Oh, Obama didn't order the surveillance, his Chief of Staff did."

    Doesn't matter. Still illegal and he's still responsible.

    So sure, we can go through some legalistic multipage explanation...which will be a really tedious way of saying "Obama had Trump under surveillance and tapped his phones." No matter how you spin it, it's still an invasion of privacy, unethical and most likely illegal, an enormous abuse of power., and at Obama's direction. Oh, and? Obama and his Democrat cronies shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. I get tired of these people abusing their power and walking away scot free like some ####ing third world dictator.
    It's not splitting hairs, nor is it illegal.

    This is the same intelligence apparatus' power no one cared about until now. "If [Trump] has nothing to hide, what's the problem?"
    Crybaby Cripplecrow Hanging on a Monkey's Toe Club

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn View Post
    "If [Trump] has nothing to hide, what's the problem?"

    Good 'un!!!
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

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