The GOP Crusade Against Health Care Is Class Warfare

nhboy

Ubi bene ibi patria
" The struggle over health care in the United States is a form of class warfare, complicated by racism.

The Republican proposal for the “American Health Care Act,” as they called it, made this warfare clear. The bill was not so much a health care act as a massive tax cut for the wealthiest Americans, paid for by tossing 24 million people off health care insurance.

In fact the bill failed because it made the class warfare too transparent. You can’t give CEOs $500k tax breaks and throw 24 million people off health insurance and still be maintaining that you represent “the people.” When the GOP congressmen spoke on TV of letting the market solve health care, what they really meant is that the poor who can’t afford health insurance would just not be able to have it. In the US, unlike India, the poor don’t vote, so Congress has no reason to fear the poor. And since the corporations managed to largely get rid of unions, they don’t fear workers, either.

The outrage is Trump’s bait and switch. He campaigned on making sure everyone has health insurance. Then his health care bill massively reduces the number of people who have health care plans.

The US has a two-tiered society. The higher tier has health insurance through work. The lower tier is disproportionately uninsured. Uninsured in the US means, you get your health care at the emergency room, and there is enormous expense to taxpayers, and that you have little physician access or preventative care. (studies show that health depends on preventative care and physician access.) Or if you have a little money and you need a scheduled surgery, e.g. you lose your home or bank account to pay for it, pushing you into the ranks of the poor.

The US is the only major industrial society that does not guarantee access to health care insurance to everyone. "

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/its_class_warfare_stupid_the_gop_crusade_against_health_care_20170326
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
" The struggle over health care in the United States is a form of class warfare, complicated by racism.

The Republican proposal for the “American Health Care Act,” as they called it, made this warfare clear. The bill was not so much a health care act as a massive tax cut for the wealthiest Americans, paid for by tossing 24 million people off health care insurance.

In fact the bill failed because it made the class warfare too transparent. You can’t give CEOs $500k tax breaks and throw 24 million people off health insurance and still be maintaining that you represent “the people.” When the GOP congressmen spoke on TV of letting the market solve health care, what they really meant is that the poor who can’t afford health insurance would just not be able to have it. In the US, unlike India, the poor don’t vote, so Congress has no reason to fear the poor. And since the corporations managed to largely get rid of unions, they don’t fear workers, either.

The outrage is Trump’s bait and switch. He campaigned on making sure everyone has health insurance. Then his health care bill massively reduces the number of people who have health care plans.

The US has a two-tiered society. The higher tier has health insurance through work. The lower tier is disproportionately uninsured. Uninsured in the US means, you get your health care at the emergency room, and there is enormous expense to taxpayers, and that you have little physician access or preventative care. (studies show that health depends on preventative care and physician access.) Or if you have a little money and you need a scheduled surgery, e.g. you lose your home or bank account to pay for it, pushing you into the ranks of the poor.

The US is the only major industrial society that does not guarantee access to health care insurance to everyone. "

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/its_class_warfare_stupid_the_gop_crusade_against_health_care_20170326

Don't worry,,Be Happy---single payer will be here as soon as this Obamacare farce has wasted itself.
It's what both parties want and fugg the public.
Hope you like it at the Clinic.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Healthcare is NOT A Right

It should be.

Vaccines, regular check ups, basic medicine, clean water, clean air, decent food quality, worker safety, product safety rules, industry control, land use controls, all in the name of reasonable care for public health.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
It should be.

Vaccines, regular check ups, basic medicine, clean water, clean air, decent food quality, worker safety, product safety rules, industry control, land use controls, all in the name of reasonable care for public health.

It actually is a right, but that does not make it a requirement for it to be provided to anyone. Keeping and bearing arms is a right, but no one is required to provide them to me. A free press is a right, but that is not a requirement for a government-funded press (in fact, it kind of is the opposite of that). You have the right to free speech, but no one is required to provide you a place to speak, nor is anyone required to listen.

So, you're right that it is and should be a right, but that does not mean anyone needs to provide it to you.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
If I don't make sure you have a gun, no harm no foul. If I don't make sure you have clean water or good septic or clean food or vaccinations or environmental safety not only does it immediately harm you, it harms me, too.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
If I don't make sure you have a gun, no harm no foul.

Tell that to the millions held up by others with guns every year. Tell that to the people who could not protect themselves from illegal government intrusion into their lives.

If I don't make sure you have clean water or good septic or clean food or vaccinations or environmental safety not only does it immediately harm you, it harms me, too.

So, is it a violation of my civil rights to be on well water? Should I be suing?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
You're getting predictable. Does anyone get held up every day? Do we not also see law and order as a civil right? I do.

There is NOTHING in declaring health care a right that prohibits you from providing for yourself. Wanna drill on your land forcwayer? Cool. Wanna drill on you and for oil, that probably is going to impact others. Heck, drilling too many wells or doing them wrong impacts others. There is a societal role.

Live in town? You're probably not going to be drilling for water for the apartment.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
You're getting predictable. Does anyone get held up every day? Do we not also see law and order as a civil right? I do.

There is NOTHING in declaring health care a right that prohibits you from providing for yourself. Wanna drill on your land forcwayer? Cool. Wanna drill on you and for oil, that probably is going to impact others. Heck, drilling too many wells or doing them wrong impacts others. There is a societal role.

Live in town? You're probably not going to be drilling for water for the apartment.

Predictable implies consistent, so I would say thank you!

Should I be suing for a breach of my civil rights for being on well water?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Predictable implies consistent, so I would say thank you!

Should I be suing for a breach of my civil rights for being on well water?

Consistency, I'm sorry to say, is indicative of either being right all the time. Or wrong. Either way, it is no virtue.

Why would you sue for some made up rights violation if you're on well? You might sue if I came along and drilled 20 wells next door and drained the aquifer
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Consistency, I'm sorry to say, is indicative of either being right all the time. Or wrong. Either way, it is no virtue.

Consistency is a sign of principled decision-making. That IS a virtue. Swinging in the wind is a sign of being unprincipled, which is not a virtue.

Why would you sue for some made up rights violation if you're on well?

Well, if it is a right to have water pumped to my house, and sewage pumped away, and I don't because I am on a well and septic, aren't I being denied my civil rights?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Consistency is a sign of principled decision-making. That IS a virtue. Swinging in the wind is a sign of being unprincipled, which is not a virtue.



Well, if it is a right to have water pumped to my house, and sewage pumped away, and I don't because I am on a well and septic, aren't I being denied my civil rights?

Ah, that is the perfect progressive argument. You're not interested in what you have but in what others 'have'
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Let's see how consistent your principles are.

Are you for public school?
Are you for public vaccinations?
Are you for public highways?
Are you for public sewer and water?
Are you for public health care?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
If the collective does not give one crap about me, why should I give one about the collective? Comrade.. ;-p

Heck if I know. I do know if I have land and a well, I'm not going to feel cheated if the city slickers want to use tax dollars for water and sewer in town and keep you from putting up a brewery next door to me and suck my well dry.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Ah, that is the perfect progressive argument. You're not interested in what you have but in what others 'have'

Do you see that you are inconsistent here?

LG: Health care is like water, it should be provided to you. That makes it a civil right.

ME: So, what if water isn't provided, is that an issue?

LG: How predictable, how pedantic, how inconsistent, what a stretch, what a progressive you are worried about what others have.....


Seriously, Larry? No one is owed health care at the cost of other people, any more than they are owed water at the cost of other people. Calling me names and deflecting the faults in your own comparison doesn't change that.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Let's see how consistent your principles are.

Are you for public school? Yes. The tenth amendment gives the local government the ability to provide things like this at the behest of the local people. Federal government should not be involved in one tiny little bit, though.
Are you for public vaccinations? Absolutely not; however, if obtaining public services is incumbent upon having the vaccination (such as schools), then it is the choice of the individual to receive the service or inoculate their children.
Are you for public highways? Article one, section eight makes this a direct requirement for the federal government to provide. Not only post roads, but interstate highway systems as covered as a defense cost.
Are you for public sewer and water? Absolutely not, but it is up to the local community if they choose it. As a requirement for all, though, no.
Are you for public health care? As a federal mandate, absolutely not. Now, if local communities want to do that, the tenth amendment allows for such foolishness.

See answers in red.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Heck if I know. I do know if I have land and a well, I'm not going to feel cheated if the city slickers want to use tax dollars for water and sewer in town and keep you from putting up a brewery next door to me and suck my well dry.

It's probably not a civil right if violating it doesn't bother people.

The TSA - robbing people of civil rights, and I absolutely hate it. Water? People get it on their own, and pay for what they get - not a civil right.
 
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