You Shouldn’t Blame Islam for Terrorism. Religion Isn’t a Crucial Factor in Attacks.

[nhboy]

" What do you think of when you hear the word “terrorist”? Big beards and brown skins? Turban-wearing Muslim migrants from the Middle East? Refugees maybe?

Yet according to a report from the New America Foundation, “every jihadist who conducted a lethal attack inside the United States since 9/11 was a citizen or legal resident.” A recent study in Britain, which last week endured its worst terrorist atrocity since 2005, revealed that more than two out of three “Islamism-inspired” terrorist offenses were carried out by individuals “who were either born or raised in the UK.”

The common stereotype of the Middle Eastern, Muslim-born terrorist is not just lazy and inaccurate, but easy fodder for the anti-immigrant, anti-Islam far right. Consider the swift reaction of White House official Sebastian Gorka to the horrific terror attack in London last week. “The war is real,” he told Fox News while the bodies of the victims were still warm, “and that’s why executive orders like President Trump’s travel moratorium are so important.”

Sorry, what? The 52-year-old perpetrator of the London attack, Khalid Masood, was born and brought up in the UK and would not have been affected in the slightest by a travel ban on Muslims from the Middle East. He was neither a refugee nor an immigrant. He was not of Middle Eastern origin either, and he was not even a Muslim for the vast majority of his life.

Born to a white mother and black father as Adrian Elms, and raised as Adrian Ajao, he is believed to have converted to Islam in prison in 2003 and had a well-documented history of criminality prior to mowing down innocent pedestrians on Westminster Bridge, and stabbing a police officer outside the Houses of Parliament, last Thursday afternoon. "

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/29/you-shouldnt-blame-islam-for-terrorism-religion-isnt-a-crucial-factor-in-attacks/

 

[This_person]

Yet according to a report from the New America Foundation, “every jihadist who conducted a lethal attack inside the United States since 9/11 was a citizen or legal resident.”

This line stands out to the curious reader, as it uses very different wording from the British comparison it is making, and yet there is no information to back it up.

So, let's look:

1. December 2001: British national Richard Reid unsuccessfully tries to detonate explosives packed into his shoes on an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami. Reid had reportedly traveled to Pakistan and Afghanistan and trained with al-Qaida.
2. December 2009: Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, a Nigerian recruit to al-Qaida's Yemen branch, tries unsuccessfully to blow up a Detroit-bound airliner on Christmas Day with explosives in his underwear. Authorities say he trained under al-Awlaki.
3. May 2010: Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistan-born U.S. citizen, ignites a bomb he'd placed in a vehicle parked in New York's Times Square. It fails to explode. Shahzad had reportedly trained with militants in Pakistan.
4. April 2013: Tamerlan and Dhozkar Tsarnaev, U.S. citizens born in Kyrgyzstan, set off two bombs at the 2013 Boston marathon, killing three and injuring over 260 people. The ethnic Chechen brothers appear to have self-radicalized long after coming to the U.S. a decade earlier. Authorities say Tamerlan, the older brother, became radicalized in the last few years of his life, including during a six-month trip to Dagestan and Chechnya in 2012.
5. July 2015: Kuwait-born U.S. citizen Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez opens fire at a recruiting center and another U.S. military site a few miles apart in Chattanooga, Tennessee, killing four Marines and a sailor. Investigators said Abdulazeez was a homegrown violent extremist but his motive remains unclear. Relatives said he had a history of mental illness.
6. December 2015: Syed Farook, a U.S. citizen of Pakistani descent, and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, a Pakistani permanent U.S. resident, kill 14 people and injured 22 at an office party in San Bernardino, California. The FBI concluded they were "homegrown violent extremists."
7. June 2016: Omar Mateen, a U.S. citizen born to Afghan parents, opens fire at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, killing 49 and seriously injuring 53 — the deadliest jihadist attack in America since 9/11. Authorities said Mateen had read and absorbed extremist propaganda on the internet. He pledged allegiance to IS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in a call from the nightclub during the attack.
8. September 2016: Ahmad Khan Rahami, an Afghanistan-born U.S. citizen, sets off bombs in New York and New Jersey, injuring 31 people. There are signs he was radicalized abroad by Islamic extremists, though any ties to IS are tenuous.
9. November 2016: Abdul Razak Ali Artan, a Somali refugee with permanent U.S. residency, carries out a car and knife attack on fellow students at Ohio State University campus, injuring 11 people. Artan had spent seven years in a refugee camp in Pakistan before moving to America in 2014. He ranted in social media about U.S. interference in Muslim lands.

The people identified in red show the line to be factually inaccurate. The lines in blue show the line to be exceptionally misleading.

Funny how that works.

 

[glhs837]

So, maybe, just maybe I should worry less about immigrants, I'll allow that for the sake of argument, although a case might be made that the only reason for that is that our counterterrorism folks are the A team and don't let myuch get by them.

But here's the real question I have....... Why mention anit-Muslim feelings. these people were Muslins, they were jihadists. Don't give a rats azz where they were born. So don't tell me not to have the mental image of a terrorist as a Muslim jihadist, that's the way to bet.

 

[itsbob]

This line stands out to the curious reader, as it uses very different wording from the British comparison it is making, and yet there is no information to back it up.

So, let's look:

1. December 2001: British national Richard Reid unsuccessfully tries to detonate explosives packed into his shoes on an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami. Reid had reportedly traveled to Pakistan and Afghanistan and trained with al-Qaida.
2. December 2009: Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, a Nigerian recruit to al-Qaida's Yemen branch, tries unsuccessfully to blow up a Detroit-bound airliner on Christmas Day with explosives in his underwear. Authorities say he trained under al-Awlaki.
3. May 2010: Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistan-born U.S. citizen, ignites a bomb he'd placed in a vehicle parked in New York's Times Square. It fails to explode. Shahzad had reportedly trained with militants in Pakistan.
4. April 2013: Tamerlan and Dhozkar Tsarnaev, U.S. citizens born in Kyrgyzstan, set off two bombs at the 2013 Boston marathon, killing three and injuring over 260 people. The ethnic Chechen brothers appear to have self-radicalized long after coming to the U.S. a decade earlier. Authorities say Tamerlan, the older brother, became radicalized in the last few years of his life, including during a six-month trip to Dagestan and Chechnya in 2012.
5. July 2015: Kuwait-born U.S. citizen Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez opens fire at a recruiting center and another U.S. military site a few miles apart in Chattanooga, Tennessee, killing four Marines and a sailor. Investigators said Abdulazeez was a homegrown violent extremist but his motive remains unclear. Relatives said he had a history of mental illness.
6. December 2015: Syed Farook, a U.S. citizen of Pakistani descent, and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, a Pakistani permanent U.S. resident, kill 14 people and injured 22 at an office party in San Bernardino, California. The FBI concluded they were "homegrown violent extremists."
7. June 2016: Omar Mateen, a U.S. citizen born to Afghan parents, opens fire at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, killing 49 and seriously injuring 53 — the deadliest jihadist attack in America since 9/11. Authorities said Mateen had read and absorbed extremist propaganda on the internet. He pledged allegiance to IS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in a call from the nightclub during the attack.
8. September 2016: Ahmad Khan Rahami, an Afghanistan-born U.S. citizen, sets off bombs in New York and New Jersey, injuring 31 people. There are signs he was radicalized abroad by Islamic extremists, though any ties to IS are tenuous.
9. November 2016: Abdul Razak Ali Artan, a Somali refugee with permanent U.S. residency, carries out a car and knife attack on fellow students at Ohio State University campus, injuring 11 people. Artan had spent seven years in a refugee camp in Pakistan before moving to America in 2014. He ranted in social media about U.S. interference in Muslim lands.

The people identified in red show the line to be factually inaccurate. The lines in blue show the line to be exceptionally misleading.

Funny how that works.

So 8 out of 10 were immigrants/ refugees that were never screened at all??

Is that what that says??

 

[This_person]

So 8 out of 10 were immigrants/ refugees that were never screened at all??

Is that what that says??

Of the 11, 2 were not American citizens or permanent residents, 7 were not born in the US, and 2 were first-generation Americans. Virtually all radicalized overseas (though not all).

I can't speak to the screening process, but it would seem it is inadequate.

 

[itsbob]

" What do you think of when you hear the word “terrorist”? Big beards and brown skins? Turban-wearing Muslim migrants from the Middle East? Refugees maybe?

Yet according to a report from the New America Foundation, “every jihadist who conducted a lethal attack inside the United States since 9/11 was a citizen or legal resident.” A recent study in Britain, which last week endured its worst terrorist atrocity since 2005, revealed that more than two out of three “Islamism-inspired” terrorist offenses were carried out by individuals “who were either born or raised in the UK.”

The common stereotype of the Middle Eastern, Muslim-born terrorist is not just lazy and inaccurate, but easy fodder for the anti-immigrant, anti-Islam far right. Consider the swift reaction of White House official Sebastian Gorka to the horrific terror attack in London last week. “The war is real,” he told Fox News while the bodies of the victims were still warm, “and that’s why executive orders like President Trump’s travel moratorium are so important.”

Sorry, what? The 52-year-old perpetrator of the London attack, Khalid Masood, was born and brought up in the UK and would not have been affected in the slightest by a travel ban on Muslims from the Middle East. He was neither a refugee nor an immigrant. He was not of Middle Eastern origin either, and he was not even a Muslim for the vast majority of his life.

Born to a white mother and black father as Adrian Elms, and raised as Adrian Ajao, he is believed to have converted to Islam in prison in 2003 and had a well-documented history of criminality prior to mowing down innocent pedestrians on Westminster Bridge, and stabbing a police officer outside the Houses of Parliament, last Thursday afternoon. "

https://theintercept.com/2017/03/29/you-shouldnt-blame-islam-for-terrorism-religion-isnt-a-crucial-factor-in-attacks/

Would you consider Islam a religion?

I think it's much more than that.. it's not a religion as most would define it.

Islam wants to take over society as a whole, not save souls and offer never ending life..

Islam wants to dictate to everyone in society what is acceptable or not, and punish Everyone that doesn't meet those norms.. not just Islamists..
Islam is a total system of life and contains within itself a particular social system, judicial system, and political system which includes geo-political aspirations - the conquest and administration of territory as well as religion.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

This line stands out to the curious reader, as it uses very different wording from the British comparison it is making, and yet there is no information to back it up.

So, let's look:

1. December 2001: British national Richard Reid unsuccessfully tries to detonate explosives packed into his shoes on an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami. Reid had reportedly traveled to Pakistan and Afghanistan and trained with al-Qaida.
2. December 2009: Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, a Nigerian recruit to al-Qaida's Yemen branch, tries unsuccessfully to blow up a Detroit-bound airliner on Christmas Day with explosives in his underwear. Authorities say he trained under al-Awlaki.
3. May 2010: Faisal Shahzad, a Pakistan-born U.S. citizen, ignites a bomb he'd placed in a vehicle parked in New York's Times Square. It fails to explode. Shahzad had reportedly trained with militants in Pakistan.
4. April 2013: Tamerlan and Dhozkar Tsarnaev, U.S. citizens born in Kyrgyzstan, set off two bombs at the 2013 Boston marathon, killing three and injuring over 260 people. The ethnic Chechen brothers appear to have self-radicalized long after coming to the U.S. a decade earlier. Authorities say Tamerlan, the older brother, became radicalized in the last few years of his life, including during a six-month trip to Dagestan and Chechnya in 2012.
5. July 2015: Kuwait-born U.S. citizen Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez opens fire at a recruiting center and another U.S. military site a few miles apart in Chattanooga, Tennessee, killing four Marines and a sailor. Investigators said Abdulazeez was a homegrown violent extremist but his motive remains unclear. Relatives said he had a history of mental illness.
6. December 2015: Syed Farook, a U.S. citizen of Pakistani descent, and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, a Pakistani permanent U.S. resident, kill 14 people and injured 22 at an office party in San Bernardino, California. The FBI concluded they were "homegrown violent extremists."
7. June 2016: Omar Mateen, a U.S. citizen born to Afghan parents, opens fire at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, killing 49 and seriously injuring 53 — the deadliest jihadist attack in America since 9/11. Authorities said Mateen had read and absorbed extremist propaganda on the internet. He pledged allegiance to IS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi in a call from the nightclub during the attack.
8. September 2016: Ahmad Khan Rahami, an Afghanistan-born U.S. citizen, sets off bombs in New York and New Jersey, injuring 31 people. There are signs he was radicalized abroad by Islamic extremists, though any ties to IS are tenuous.
9. November 2016: Abdul Razak Ali Artan, a Somali refugee with permanent U.S. residency, carries out a car and knife attack on fellow students at Ohio State University campus, injuring 11 people. Artan had spent seven years in a refugee camp in Pakistan before moving to America in 2014. He ranted in social media about U.S. interference in Muslim lands.

The people identified in red show the line to be factually inaccurate. The lines in blue show the line to be exceptionally misleading.

Funny how that works.

That list seems to be missing the Sikh temple shooting (by a white American), Dylan Roof (a white American), the Discovery hostage situation up in Silver Spring a few years ago (a white American), Christopher Dorner shootings and manhunt (a black former cop American), Ricin letters, 2013 LA airport shooting, Jewish community center shooting, 2014 Vegas shootings, 2014 PA sniper and manhunt, 2014 NYPD shooting, etc.

One thing I just read was a study about how the media tends to focus more on Muslim attacks, leading Americans to believe they are less safe.

 

[itsbob]

That list seems to be missing the Sikh temple shooting (by a white American), Dylan Roof (a white American), the Discovery hostage situation up in Silver Spring a few years ago (a white American), Christopher Dorner shootings and manhunt (a black former cop American), Ricin letters, 2013 LA airport shooting, Jewish community center shooting, 2014 Vegas shootings, 2014 PA sniper and manhunt, 2014 NYPD shooting, etc.

One thing I just read was a study about how the media tends to focus more on Muslim attacks, leading Americans to believe they are less safe.

Maybe because Islam itself has a plan and a strategy to bring terrorism to our land more and more, and want to see the Death of Americans and all infidels..

They are organized, have funding, and have the ability to bring mass casualties and a lot of destruction to our country.

The others you list, can you say the same?

 

[glhs837]

That list seems to be missing the Sikh temple shooting (by a white American), Dylan Roof (a white American), the Discovery hostage situation up in Silver Spring a few years ago (a white American), Christopher Dorner shootings and manhunt (a black former cop American), Ricin letters, 2013 LA airport shooting, Jewish community center shooting, 2014 Vegas shootings, 2014 PA sniper and manhunt, 2014 NYPD shooting, etc.

One thing I just read was a study about how the media tends to focus more on Muslim attacks, leading Americans to believe they are less safe.

Maybe because we link like things together, and those attacks had nothing in common besides firearms being used?

 

[This_person]

That list seems to be missing the Sikh temple shooting (by a white American), Dylan Roof (a white American), the Discovery hostage situation up in Silver Spring a few years ago (a white American), Christopher Dorner shootings and manhunt (a black former cop American), Ricin letters, 2013 LA airport shooting, Jewish community center shooting, 2014 Vegas shootings, 2014 PA sniper and manhunt, 2014 NYPD shooting, etc.

One thing I just read was a study about how the media tends to focus more on Muslim attacks, leading Americans to believe they are less safe.

Those were left out because they did not refute the claim. I offered ones that refuted the claim “every jihadist who conducted a lethal attack inside the United States since 9/11 was a citizen or legal resident.” Clearly, not "every" one was, and using the legal/weasel words, different from the standard applied to the British context (which is what this was supposed to be supporting) tends to let me know that they knew when they wrote it that it was not exactly accurate and very misleading.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Maybe because we link like things together, and those attacks had nothing in common besides firearms being used?

Those were left out because they did not refute the claim. I offered ones that refuted the claim “every jihadist who conducted a lethal attack inside the United States since 9/11 was a citizen or legal resident.” Clearly, not "every" one was, and using the legal/weasel words, different from the standard applied to the British context (which is what this was supposed to be supporting) tends to let me know that they knew when they wrote it that it was not exactly accurate and very misleading.

I don't plan on narrowing down what a "terrorist attack" is. A "jihadist" is inherently a Muslim since no neo-Nazi is calling themselves jihadists. Even so, many of the points you refute say they are American citizens or legal residents. They were. Where they were born doesn't change that fact.

I won't argue where they were radicalized, or by whom, but if we, as a country, want to focus on terrorist attacks, we should do so with all of them. Not just the ones involving Islam.

 

[This_person]

I don't plan on narrowing down what a "terrorist attack" is. A "jihadist" is inherently a Muslim since no neo-Nazi is calling themselves jihadists. Even so, many of the points you refute say they are American citizens or legal residents. They were. Where they were born doesn't change that fact.

I won't argue where they were radicalized, or by whom, but if we, as a country, want to focus on terrorist attacks, we should do so with all of them. Not just the ones involving Islam.

While most were citizens or residents, that is very much like saying every serial killer ate bread - it implies something that is horribly inaccurate. While the people involved may have been citizens, they were not born here and thus highly unlikely to be assimilated to here.

You're nit-picking the words to show how it is technically accurate (and, except for a few it is), but I'm trying to show how it is misleading (which clearly it is). These folks were not Richie and Joannie Cunningham, they were foreigners who became citizens for some reason (seems strange since they hated America so much - almost implies it was for some other reason than patriotism).