Millions of gallons of sewer water released into Jones Falls.......

PrchJrkr

Long Haired Country Boy
Ad Free Experience
Patron
"It did not spill into any streets."

Well, thank goodness!
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure this is storm sewer and not sanitary sewer. I know people around here don't understand storm sewers since we just let the water lay on the roads but they are definitely different.
 

NorthBeachPerso

Honorary SMIB
I am pretty sure this is storm sewer and not sanitary sewer. I know people around here don't understand storm sewers since we just let the water lay on the roads but they are definitely different.


No, it's sanitary. Baltimore, like a lot of cities, originally designed their sewer systems to carry both waste and storm water. Some have fixed that, others have not or are in the process to do so.

This is one of the things the Flush Tax is directed at to fix.

It doesn't say whether there was time to at least chlorinate it prior to the release. In any event, by the time it gets down to here it won't even register on a test. There's more than that released from all the dog #### in people's yards and failing septics every time it rains.

They will likely be fined. The standard fine for small systems/spills is $1000/gallon.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
I am pretty sure this is storm sewer and not sanitary sewer. I know people around here don't understand storm sewers since we just let the water lay on the roads but they are definitely different.

Nope, seems like maybe the press has an agreement not to detail it as such, leaving a fig leaf, but it says so quite clearly in this older article about this.

https://baltimorebrew.com/2016/08/03/nearly-6-million-gallons-of-city-sewage-overflowed-in-storm/

First quote to point out that we are talking about the same thing,

All the sewage, according to the Department of Public Works, was released via so-called “structured outfalls,” pipes that serve as a sort of relief valve for the city’s aging sewage system during times of heavy rain.


Second quote where they state quite clearly that the overflow contains human waste.

Raw Sewage Breakdown

DPW spokesman Jeffrey Raymond provided The Brew with a detailed breakdown of Saturday’s overflows, noting that most of the human waste that was released (about 5.3 million gallons) overflowed at the two largest structured outfalls.

About 2.2 million gallons overflowed at 1900 Falls Road (Sanitary Sewer Outfall 67) and about 3.1 million gallons overflowed underground near 428 East Preston Street (Sanitary Sewer Outfall 72), Raymond said.
 

black dog

Free America
Yep.. estimated 46,000 gallons of sewage spilled into the Jones Falls when a sewer overflowed Friday, the Department of Public Works said.

The overflow was stopped about 5 p.m. Friday.

Lots of city's still have storm sewers that empty into sanitary sewers, that is slowly being rectified as to reduce the flow to the treatment facility.
Decades ago I was installing elevators in the old Scarlet Seed warehouse building in Inter Harbor for the new condos and a few miles up the Jones Falls a Sanitary Main collapsed and it fed raw sewage into Jones Falls for a few weeks until it was repaired.
It was a seemingly endless supply of brown trouts and condoms.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Nope, seems like maybe the press has an agreement not to detail it as such, leaving a fig leaf, but it says so quite clearly in this older article about this.

https://baltimorebrew.com/2016/08/03/nearly-6-million-gallons-of-city-sewage-overflowed-in-storm/

First quote to point out that we are talking about the same thing,




Second quote where they state quite clearly that the overflow contains human waste.

In other words. It worked as intended. CSOs are nothing new, especially in older systems.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
:

Yes, by pumping raw sewage into the Chesapeake Bay...:barf::barf::barf:

In combined systems, it mixes with storm water and has to discharge because either the collection system or treatment plant can't handle it.

It's not being pumped, it's being diverted as not to overflow at the plant.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

It's not being pumped, it's being diverted as not to overflow at the plant.

Semantics. Pump to lower, divert by opening a gate or valve to lower. Same effing result. And you wonder why you get dinged all the time on your English composition skills.
 

black dog

Free America
If I may ...



Semantics. Pump to lower, divert by opening a gate or valve to lower. Same effing result. And you wonder why you get dinged all the time on your English composition skills.

People wonder why Wastewater Treatment Plants are always near or have pipelines to the nearest body of water. Its generally the lowest land. What do you think happens with the effluent ( treated water ) when they are done treating it. It gets pumped into the river / bay.
And if they become overloaded with influent it can also be pumped out to the body of water.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
If I may ...



Semantics. Pump to lower, divert by opening a gate or valve to lower. Same effing result. And you wonder why you get dinged all the time on your English composition skills.

Sure, the result is the same, but that's like saying driving is the same thing as walking because, you know, the same effing result and all.

Nothing against Bird Dog, but it's not pumping into the Bay. The systems were setup to divert without pumping from the collection system outward.

Words are words. You can choose to ignore them or twist their actual meaning, but then it would seem I'm not the one with composition issues.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
People wonder why Wastewater Treatment Plants are always near or have pipelines to the nearest body of water. Its generally the lowest land. What do you think happens with the effluent ( treated water ) when they are done treating it. It gets pumped into the river / bay.
And if they become overloaded with influent it can also be pumped out to the body of water.

Sort of depends on the plant. Some are gravity fed/gravity discharge, some are pumped influent, pumped effluent (this is especially common in WWTPs that aren't near water and use their effluent for land application), or a combination.
 

black dog

Free America
There's really not alot of true gravity systems out there, there is just to much elevation changes within the systems. They are class one if I remember correctly.
Pumping stations along the way tend to speed up the waste and keep the solids from settling in the bottom of the sewer pipe.
When I worked at the Power Plants I had to carry two different Industrial Waste Water licenses.
I don't recall any gravity discharge in any of the school books or systems that I have seen. It would take excessive time to empty a tank or pit with just gravity flow.

It truly doesn't matter its just semantics we are talking about.
 

Hannibal

Active Member
Having built many of these systems, I can tell you this is commonplace and is their built in safety element. And while no one wants to accept such, the net impact of that overflow discharge into a body of water like that is minimal if not completely non-existent. Yes, of course, no one wants that as any waste is too much, but this system is far better than years past. Many jurisdictions utilized combined storm / sewer and all are working to separate the systems at great expense. In addition, as populations boom and wastewater production gets bigger (think bigger homes, more water consumption, etc), many jurisdictions are investing in storage capacity to alleviate the need to bypass treatment. DC Water/WASA is in the middle of a large underground project where storage/holding tunnels are being constructed to allow dirty water to back up in a high flow event so it can be treated at a later time while under less demand. Arlington County recently overhauled a very large segment of their existing gravity line (with a large part of it under Arlington Nat'l Cemetery) that utilized very large junction chambers to capture/hold large flow during surge events.

I don't work in Calvert County but the fact that it has changing elevations doesn't necessary negate the use of gravity systems. It all depends on the total highs and lows, flows, etc. #### CAN flow uphill if it comes racing down the hill with enough speed. It's all a matter of pipe size, type, elevation change and anticipated flow.
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
Having built many of these systems, I can tell you this is commonplace and is their built in safety element. And while no one wants to accept such, the net impact of that overflow discharge into a body of water like that is minimal if not completely non-existent. Yes, of course, no one wants that as any waste is too much, but this system is far better than years past. Many jurisdictions utilized combined storm / sewer and all are working to separate the systems at great expense. In addition, as populations boom and wastewater production gets bigger (think bigger homes, more water consumption, etc), many jurisdictions are investing in storage capacity to alleviate the need to bypass treatment. DC Water/WASA is in the middle of a large underground project where storage/holding tunnels are being constructed to allow dirty water to back up in a high flow event so it can be treated at a later time while under less demand. Arlington County recently overhauled a very large segment of their existing gravity line (with a large part of it under Arlington Nat'l Cemetery) that utilized very large junction chambers to capture/hold large flow during surge events.

I don't work in Calvert County but the fact that it has changing elevations doesn't necessary negate the use of gravity systems. It all depends on the total highs and lows, flows, etc. #### CAN flow uphill if it comes racing down the hill with enough speed. It's all a matter of pipe size, type, elevation change and anticipated flow.

I think all of you engineers are missing the point.......
We have spent Billions of dollars to "Clean" up the Bay, but can't afford to fix these Sewage systems that continually "pour", not pump for you engineers, into the Bay.
Who designs these Sh!t systems and why are they not fixed?
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
I think all of you engineers are missing the point.......
We have spent Billions of dollars to "Clean" up the Bay, but can't afford to fix these Sewage systems that continually "pour", not pump for you engineers, into the Bay.
Who designs these Sh!t systems and why are they not fixed?

They were designed well before any cleanup legislation and ripping out/replacing old infrastructure is way more expensive than upgrading a treatment plant or building emergency storage tanks/lagoons/shellfish protection ponds/etc.

Collection systems can last 100+ years and it's simply not cost effective to replace it all. Imagine the heartache and cost of ripping out/re-routing miles and miles and miles of pipelines under DC. Mind you, it's not that simple as hydraulic and hammer analyses need to be done to make sure the #### flows the right way, which means they would need to hire an engineering firm to calculate all that. Just not possible without an influx of a couple billion dollars from somewhere.
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
They were designed well before any cleanup legislation and ripping out/replacing old infrastructure is way more expensive than upgrading a treatment plant or building emergency storage tanks/lagoons/shellfish protection ponds/etc.

Collection systems can last 100+ years and it's simply not cost effective to replace it all. Imagine the heartache and cost of ripping out/re-routing miles and miles and miles of pipelines under DC. Mind you, it's not that simple as hydraulic and hammer analyses need to be done to make sure the #### flows the right way, which means they would need to hire an engineering firm to calculate all that. Just not possible without an influx of a couple billion dollars from somewhere.

You're a genius......
 
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