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Thread: Spicer WasNot The Only One .......

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gude View Post
    When was the last time you challenged yourself on something you were sure you knew and turned out you found you learned a lot or were even wrong? Did that process of learning begin with keeping your head in the sand or....challenging yourself?
    Two things --

    1. Pretty sure I have never observed you change your mind mid-thread, as a result of argumentation. This goes against how most normal people react. People do not stop in the middle of an argument with a grand epiphany and declare "Eureka! I have seen the light, and hereby change my mind on this." If you've ever done this, congratulations on arriving to this planet, because you're not actually human.

    2. People form opinions based largely on experience - and experience and time are the most persuasive factors leading them elsewhere. Say, for example, you're not sympathetic to gays - and then you make a few gay friends - and you change your mind. Say you think addicts are pathetic - and then YOU become addicted to pain-killers after a terrible accident. Boom - *life* changed your mind. Argument did not.

    We all argue as though we think the force of our words will change minds - but it doesn't work that way.
    Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong". Jean-Jacques Rousseau

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    Two things --

    1. Pretty sure I have never observed you change your mind mid-thread, as a result of argumentation. This goes against how most normal people react. People do not stop in the middle of an argument with a grand epiphany and declare "Eureka! I have seen the light, and hereby change my mind on this." If you've ever done this, congratulations on arriving to this planet, because you're not actually human.

    2. People form opinions based largely on experience - and experience and time are the most persuasive factors leading them elsewhere. Say, for example, you're not sympathetic to gays - and then you make a few gay friends - and you change your mind. Say you think addicts are pathetic - and then YOU become addicted to pain-killers after a terrible accident. Boom - *life* changed your mind. Argument did not.

    We all argue as though we think the force of our words will change minds - but it doesn't work that way.
    Happened just yesterday when I declared Russia shared a border with Syria. It happens ALL the time in conversation, even when people don't admit it. YOU make me rethink my point, constantly, such as your point about 'we're always subject to propaganda'. If I were unsympathetic to gays, that doesn't prevent me from at least listening to someone who is when they say something I can't refute such as a positive experience they may have had. Jinx, and others, are totalitarian, in their thinking; THEY don't like gays who are mentally ill thus if YOU claim to have a gay friend and positive experiences either you're not telling the truth OR YOU are also mentally ill.

    And we're not talking about gays per se. The Holocaust is an ENORMOUS issue and asking questions about it, some of the details, gets you attacked when it should start conversation. It's like climate change; don't agree on EVERY detail, you're a denier.

    And jinx goes on to prove my theory of how we're all a LOT more alike than we're comfortable coming to grips with. He would point out the dogmatic manner of the people who are SURE Climate Change is man made and comes mostly from SUV's and that CO2 is the primary cause and IS warming the planet in a range that WILL kill us all in this amount of time; the science is SETTLED. He's skeptical there and a thinking person on it, interested in the details as opposed to swallowing the whole thing, hook, line and sinker. Yet on the holocaust, he's dogmatic.
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  3. #23
    The Holocaust is a slightly different case, as it was better documented... by the Nazi's themselves.

  4. #24
    INGSOC GURPS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gude View Post
    Yet on the holocaust, he's dogmatic.


    so what hair, exactly are you trying to split ?
    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
    - Robert J. Hanlon.

    “There is a deeply anti-democratic undercurrent to much of the criticism of the new president, borne aloft by an assumption that democracy is too important to be left to the voters.”

    And if a statue can oppress you, then I submit that you have greater issues. - A West.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
    The Holocaust is a slightly different case, as it was better documented... by the Nazi's themselves.
    Which is the very source for some of the skepticism. Are you aware there is evidence, or lack thereof, documenting that Hitler ever even knew what was going on let alone signed off on it or ordered it? And part of the reason for that is that there is evidence arguing that there was no mass gas chambers. And THAT is NOT to say Jews were not being executed. It's just that, in context of the concentration camp complex and how prisoners were generally dealt with in the East, there wasn't much difference between the atrocities committed against Russian and Polish and political prisoners. Most of the evidence of the gas chamber argument came from the Russians who had PLENTY of their own atrocities they'd rather not have had to face up to. And there is evidence some, much of the evidence was, in fact, fabricated. But, we take them at face value. Why would we take one mass murderers word over another? One was on our side, the one that murdered FAR more of it's own people than Hitler ever did. You are ware that few German Jews were executed, yes? Spicers and Mathews point to begin with?
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  6. #26
    Ahmadinnerjacket always claimed the entire holocaust was a hoax and a myth. Sayyyy...I see he's going to run for Iran's prez again. Interesting times.
    You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. -Frank Zappa

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by GURPS View Post
    so what hair, exactly are you trying to split ?
    That's not a hair. That's the whole thing. Being dogmatic is the antithesis of skepticism. Humans are susceptible and inclined towards both. It is innate in us and we're not consistent.
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan View Post
    Ahmadinnerjacket always claimed the entire holocaust was a hoax and a myth. Sayyyy...I see he's going to run for Iran's prez again. Interesting times.
    Mass murder of Jews is no hoax. Nor is mass murder of Ukrainians. Or American Indians. Or Armenians. Or and number of the tribes commanded to be exterminated in the Old Testament. The point is that some of the story of the Holocaust isn't as we're told and a lot of other holocausts and war crimes are not taught at all. Dresden. Churchill's plan to anthrax an entire region between Germany and France that would be a waste land to this day were his orders followed.
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gude View Post
    Mass murder of Jews is no hoax. Nor is mass murder of Ukrainians. Or American Indians. Or Armenians. Or and number of the tribes commanded to be exterminated in the Old Testament. The point is that some of the story of the Holocaust isn't as we're told and a lot of other holocausts and war crimes are not taught at all. Dresden. Churchill's plan to anthrax an entire region between Germany and France that would be a waste land to this day were his orders followed.
    I'm pretty sure I knew all of that.

    ;-)
    You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. -Frank Zappa

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan View Post
    I'm pretty sure I knew all of that.

    ;-)
    I know you know. Others may not. And may not want to.

    It's important to keep all this in context of what Spicer said in context of what was going on and the left is actually attacking Trump FOR ATTACKING Assad FOR using chemical weapons. WHIL jumping up and down about the Hitler comment.
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

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