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Thread: Patriots day...

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    I hate this stupid - stupid - *STUPID* - argument.

    Two of those countries are Russia and China - do you REALLY want to spend LESS than them? Do you want to live in a world where the supreme military power in the world - is China? Or Russia?

    Okay, so we make sure we spend more than them. What about our Western Europe allies?
    We're a nation of just under 320 million - should our defense spending be comparable to nations like the U.K. and Germany, with 1/4th of the population?
    We spend ~3% of our budget on defense - and that puts us *10th* in the world. We just spend a lot because we have a great economy.

    As a nation - we spend a comparable amount as the European Union - with a similar population.
    It's not ridiculous - it's sensible. And it ensures that no one screws with us.
    It's not a stupid argument unless you accept, without debate, that it is the responsibility of the US to be THE super power on the planet. It's not a stupid argument unless you accept, without any basis for it, that our military spending is in response to THEIRS. That they were a threat and we 'had' to respond to it instead of the other way around. It's not a stupid argument unless you accept, without question, that we had to defeat Nazi-ism and Imperial Japan so we could make a world safe for Mao and Stalin so we could then have a cold war to make the world safe from them. It's not a stupid argument unless you accept at face value that all we are is responding to the threat of others.

    JFK was on the verge of pissing himself and starting WWIII over Cuba, the USSR's response to Kennedy's provocation in moving more weaponry into THEIR back yard and yet the rest of the world is SUPPOSED accept as benign OUR military presence in their back yard. If you think this has ensured that 'non one screws' with us, I ask you to take a look around and look at what our policies have done.

    What would the world look like had we supported democracy in Iran in the 50's instead of supporting monarchy and throwing our weight around?

    What would it look like today had we stayed out of Vietnam? Korea? Afghanistan? Iraq?

    There is a VERY clear argument to make that our spending hasn't done the world much good and, more importantly, done us much good. Has it brought us peace and prosperity in our cities? Or has military spending and use constantly been used as a distraction from taking care of and minding our own business? What has our MASSIVE sales of arms around the globe over the decades bought?

    And your contention that we spend a similar amount as the EU is non sense. Compare our power to the EU. Compare it to China. Russia. There is us and that's it. The ENTIRE world is FAR behind us, collectively, in terms of military power. And what have we done with it?

    I grant and agree with Mahr, and you, that no one has ever had such relative power in world history and been so soft stepping with it. However, has that equaled world peace? Is that even our job? With so much rank disagreement over right and wrong in our OWN nation, how do we make the contention with any sincerity that we know what's best for every one else? Have we used it to actually protect ourselves? Really? From whom? When? We were under NO threat in WWI or WWII. Have we simply spent so much merely for profit and to keep low level conflict alive and well, continuously? We seem to, time and again, do just enough to ensure there is neither peace or open war.

    Again, it's a stupid argument unless you accept, without hesitation, that what we've been doing has been in the US national interest and done the world good.
    ADHD; Interdisciplinary

  2. #32
    Visualize whirled peas Merlin99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gude View Post
    1 It's not a stupid argument unless you accept, without debate, that it is the responsibility of the US to be THE super power on the planet. It's not a stupid argument unless you accept, without any basis for it, that our military spending is in response to THEIRS.2 That they were a threat and we 'had' to respond to it instead of the other way around. It's not a stupid argument unless you accept, without question,3 that we had to defeat Nazi-ism and Imperial Japan so we could make a world safe for Mao and Stalin so we could then have a cold war to make the world safe from them. It's not a stupid argument unless you accept at face value that all we are is responding to the threat of others.

    JFK was on the verge of pissing himself and starting WWIII over Cuba, the USSR's response to Kennedy's provocation in moving more weaponry into THEIR back yard and yet the rest of the world is SUPPOSED accept as benign OUR military presence in their back yard. If you think this has ensured that 'non one screws' with us, I ask you to take a look around and look at what our policies have done.

    4 What would the world look like had we supported democracy in Iran in the 50's instead of supporting monarchy and throwing our weight around?

    What would it look like today had we stayed out of Vietnam? Korea? Afghanistan? Iraq?

    There is a VERY clear argument to make that our spending hasn't done the world much good and, more importantly, done us much good. Has it brought us peace and prosperity in our cities? Or has military spending and use constantly been used as a distraction from taking care of and minding our own business? What has our MASSIVE sales of arms around the globe over the decades bought?

    5 And your contention that we spend a similar amount as the EU is non sense. Compare our power to the EU. Compare it to China. Russia. There is us and that's it. The ENTIRE world is FAR behind us, collectively, in terms of military power. And what have we done with it?

    I grant and agree with Mahr, and you, that no one has ever had such relative power in world history and been so soft stepping with it. However, has that equaled world peace? Is that even our job? With so much rank disagreement over right and wrong in our OWN nation, how do we make the contention with any sincerity that we know what's best for every one else? Have we used it to actually protect ourselves? Really? From whom? When? We were under NO threat in WWI or WWII. Have we simply spent so much merely for profit and to keep low level conflict alive and well, continuously? We seem to, time and again, do just enough to ensure there is neither peace or open war.

    6 Again, it's a stupid argument unless you accept, without hesitation, that what we've been doing has been in the US national interest and done the world good.
    1) I accept this 100%
    2) yes
    3) remember Pearl Harbor
    4) As I recall Democracy wasn't one of the choices, it was Monarchy or Theocracy
    5) Are you saying the spending isn't the same? or that we're getting more for the same amount of money? As for what we're getting for it, technology. A huge portion of the newest technology has a military background, cell phones, GPS, surgical procedures, satellites, ocean exploration.
    6) For the most part I accept this
    ‎"I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake"

  3. #33
    INGSOC GURPS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gude View Post

    However, has that equaled world peace? Is that even our job?


    It is NO ONES JOB ....

    the UN is a cluster #### of Epic Proportions - peace keepers sexually abusing those they should be protecting
    Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
    - Robert J. Hanlon.

    “There is a deeply anti-democratic undercurrent to much of the criticism of the new president, borne aloft by an assumption that democracy is too important to be left to the voters.”

  4. #34
    I bowl overhand itsbob's Avatar
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    Aaron Hernandez should have timed his suicide to happen on Patriots Day... about 10 years ago.
    Nero played the fiddle, Obama danced the Tango.

    Quote Originally Posted by BadGirl
    Bob is the bestest lookin and smartest man I've ever met.

  5. #35
    Damn.....

    Larry pulled the 'ole and look how many he got on the line
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gude View Post
    I post stupid #### all the time.

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