Man identifies flaws in yellow light timing, gets $500 fine

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
In September 2014, Mats Järlström, an electronics engineer living in Beaverton, Oregon, sent an email to the state's engineering board. The email claimed that yellow traffic lights don't last long enough, which "puts the public at risk."

In January of this year, Järlström was officially fined $500 by the state for the crime of "practicing engineering without being registered."

It started in 2013, when Järlström's wife was caught running a red light by a camera near their home. Järlström spent a year looking into the timing of yellow lights and red light camera statistics, and learned that cameras were catching people who were running yellow lights.

The original paper that determined yellow light timing, written in 1959, is too simplistic for the modern world, he said. And yet the original calculations in them are still used all around the world.

Järlström, understandably, wanted to get feedback on his findings. And so he reached out to the engineering board, his local sheriff, and 60 Minutes. He was even invited to give a talk about his research in front of the Institute of Transportation Engineers in Anaheim, California. He also spoke to Alexei Maradudin, the last surviving author of that 1959 paper: "He wants me to continue with this, it's amazing that I have his support," Järlström said.

And yet, the engineering board in Oregon says he should not be free to publish or present his ideas. Tuesday, Järlström and the Institute for Justice sued the engineering board in federal court for Violating his First Amendment rights.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...-email-to-the-government?utm_source=mbtwitter

All the correspondence is in the link as well. I wonder if Oregon is going to go after Building "Engineers" next.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
I predict great things for this lawsuit. Seems that they bluffed with that letter. And he's going to call their bluff.
 

Clem72

Well-Known Member
Kind of a dick move, but certain professions are covered by a governing body. You can't correctly call yourself a lawyer just because you have a law degree. Same with medicine and engineering.

I am of a mind that you are what someone is willing to pay you to be, regardless of education. So if you have a degree in medicine, but you clean toilets for a living, you're a janitor. If you don't even have a high school diploma, but someone wants so pay you to design their house (without you lying about your experience or education), you're an architect. But that's not how the law sees it.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
All the correspondence is in the link as well. I wonder if Oregon is going to go after Building "Engineers" next.

Increasing requirements for licensing of engineers to practice are a coming thing. Historically it was primarily civil engineering that was the focus of state licensing requirements but in recent years that has broadened considerably to include other areas..marine and naval engineering, for example.
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
You need your masters permission to work

respect.jpg
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Kind of a dick move, but certain professions are covered by a governing body. You can't correctly call yourself a lawyer just because you have a law degree. Same with medicine and engineering.

I am of a mind that you are what someone is willing to pay you to be, regardless of education. So if you have a degree in medicine, but you clean toilets for a living, you're a janitor. If you don't even have a high school diploma, but someone wants so pay you to design their house (without you lying about your experience or education), you're an architect. But that's not how the law sees it.

Not really. You can be an engineer without a PE. It seems the state's contention is that him calling himself an engineer is worthy of a fine.

His defense is that he does not make final engineering decisions, nor does he offer engineering work to the public, which is what the section of the law OR is going after him says. The state is arguing that by using math, physics, and intellect, he's practicing engineering.

...Jarlstrom applied special knowledge of the mathematical, physical and engineering sciences to such creative work as investigation, evaluation, and design in connection with public equipment, processes, and works. Jarlstrom thereby engaged in the practice of engineering under ORS 672.005(1)(b). By doing so through the use of algorithms for the operation of traffic control systems, and through the use of the science of analysis, review, and application of traffic data systems to advise members of the public on the treatment of the functional characteristics of traffic signal timing, Jarlstrom engaged, specifically, in traffic engineering under OAR 820-040-0030(1)(b) and (2)(a).
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

Isn't this more of a mathematical thing than an engineering thing? When it comes right down to it it's about timing, correct? X=Distance Y=Time. It's just math. No engineering, as I know it, and most people know it, involved.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
No one has hit the problem yet. If this guy wins it will cause them to reset the camera's and the red lights and that will cost them money to get it done as well as making it nharder to get a ticket, which is the real reason for the existence of red light camera's

If they can shut him up they get away clean, it's all about the money.
 

awpitt

Main Streeter
Kind of a dick move, but certain professions are covered by a governing body. You can't correctly call yourself a lawyer just because you have a law degree. Same with medicine and engineering.

I am of a mind that you are what someone is willing to pay you to be, regardless of education. So if you have a degree in medicine, but you clean toilets for a living, you're a janitor. If you don't even have a high school diploma, but someone wants so pay you to design their house (without you lying about your experience or education), you're an architect. But that's not how the law sees it.

Where did he call himself an Engineer?
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Where did he call himself an Engineer?

In his initial letter to the agency responsible, not sure where else. I think he also caused that initial letter to be published, therefore presenting himself to the public as an engineer.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
Where did he call himself an Engineer?

Besides the title of the linked article which makes that clear, it's in his original e-mail.
If you are looking for a Board member I might be interested since I’m already doing thiskind of work and it would be nice to get paid. My Swedish engineering degree is inelectronics and I’m an expert in motional feedback (displacement, velocity and accelerationfeedback) of powered speakers which includes the full understanding of motion of an objectsuch as a loudspeaker cone (or a vehicle stopping or traveling through an intersection as inORS811.260(4))
https://www.scribd.com/document/346354143/mats1#from_embed

It's also mentioned in the letter from OR State Board of Examiners for Engineering & Land Surveying.
...I informed you at the time that use of the title engineer'' without registration is prohlbited in Oregon. I asked you to stop any further use of the title until you became registered. You agreed. However, the allegations are that you then continued to use the title "engineer" in your communications with Board staff and, of more concern, are the documents you provided that indicate you may have engaged in unlicensed engineering work in Oregon.
https://www.scribd.com/document/346354144/mats2#from_embed
 
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Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member

awpitt

Main Streeter
I'm thinking the mortality rate in this country is just too damn low. It's allowing idiots to grow up to become involved in politics and bureaucracy.

Yeah. We we know that all too well, especially after this past presidential election.
 
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