The immigration problem

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
This article highlights the immigration problem

These are jobs Americans don't want

Large corporations rely on this cheap labor to provide their product at low costs

If we stop immigration these jobs willl have to offer more money and workplace protections

The price of chicken ( the product in the article) will rise.


How is it possible to employ Americans in these jobs and still enjoy the low costs of products Americans have become used to?

Or is it not possible to do both?

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/08/exploitation-and-abuse-at-the-chicken-plant
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Illegal Immigration is the issue .... I'm sure the illegals could be replaced with legals already here
 

black dog

Free America
This article highlights the immigration problem

These are jobs Americans don't want

Large corporations rely on this cheap labor to provide their product at low costs

If we stop immigration these jobs willl have to offer more money and workplace protections

The price of chicken ( the product in the article) will rise.


How is it possible to employ Americans in these jobs and still enjoy the low costs of products Americans have become used to?

Or is it not possible to do both?

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/08/exploitation-and-abuse-at-the-chicken-plant

How did America do it before this huge influx of illegals?

Huge corporations tend to use the Federal guest worker programs that have been in place for decades. Even smaller responsible Companys do the same.

If you believe that illegals are all working for low wages you just might want to visit a new housing project being built, local factorys along with some skilled trades and see who is working and ask them what they make.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Who's talking about stopping immigration?

It's 'Guess The MPD' time. :dance:

Obviously. And yet another moron apparently oblivious to the many barriers and legal obstructions that effectively prevent companies (like mine) from employing illegals.
 

black dog

Free America
Obviously. And yet another moron apparently oblivious to the many barriers and legal obstructions that effectively prevent companies (like mine) from employing illegals.

You would never get them away from the toilet that flushes and the " Tiki Bar "
Big big problems if you have Modello on draft.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
QUOTE=Sapidus RED = My take

This article highlights the immigration problem

These are jobs Americans don't want (Or cant take because it's only a living wage if you live 10 to a house, eat on a dollar a day and send the rest of your money back home where $50 will support them for a month)

Large corporations rely on this cheap labor to provide their product at low costs (You mean laborers who are here illegally, hence the cost savings)

If we stop immigration these jobs willl have to offer more money and workplace protections (You mean illegal immigration, and yes, more money, and shocker, comply with the law regarding workplace protections, is that a bad thing?)

The price of chicken ( the product in the article) will rise. (Fine with me, I don't mind paying more to fix that problem, if in doing so we fix a few others, like the amount of tax dollars being spent to offer services to illegals families. I can choose to buy chicken, I cannot choose to pay taxes)


How is it possible to employ Americans in these jobs and still enjoy the low costs of products Americans have become used to? (Nope, see above)

Or is it not possible to do both?

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/05/08/exploitation-and-abuse-at-the-chicken-plant[/QUOTE]
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Obviously. And yet another moron apparently oblivious to the many barriers and legal obstructions that effectively prevent companies (like mine) from employing illegals.

Not you, but there are ways for companies like yours to hire legal aliens in such a way as to cost American jobs, ones bought and paid for by the highest bidder. Say Disney. While not the point of that article, paid for bypasses that allow companies to hire in Sanjay for 25K a year and boot Bob, those need to be looked at.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
How did America do it before this huge influx of illegals?

Huge corporations tend to use the Federal guest worker programs that have been in place for decades. Even smaller responsible Companys do the same.

If you believe that illegals are all working for low wages you just might want to visit a new housing project being built, local factorys along with some skilled trades and see who is working and ask them what they make.

When we went to Russia, once we got on Aeroflot we were surrounded by Russians - barely an English speaker on the plane and once we were in the air, we noticed all of the Russians moving around the plane and picking better seats (apparently, it's not uncommon for Russian flights to be a little sparse).

One person was an overly talkative Russian who chose to sit by *ME*. I think it took a half hour to slowly convince him I really didn't want to talk.

But I found out he made GREAT money - by any standard - working as a guest worker on the oil rigs in the Gulf. He had that look of someone who worked a LOT in the sun and with his hands - a young man with an older face.
From his discussion, I learned he made the trip back to St Petersburg often. And he mentioned that such jobs are in high demand for Russians looking for work - any day, he said, you look at the American embassy - they're not there to immigrate, they are there for the jobs. Long lines.

On the other hand - over the last *30* years I have made friends and acquainted myself with dozens of people here working under the table for construction and so forth where they make crap wages, paid in cash, no benefits.
I have to think that, while there are difficult jobs that pay WELL, there's LOTS of work that pays terrible but illegal immigrants get away with it, because they work for wages that are better than they get at home, but would be unattractive to any American worker. I've met any number of businessman who employ illegals because their competitors do - no bids, no jobs, and illegals work for a lot less. I am pretty sure my niece - a die hard liberal who gets IRATE at the idea of illegals sent packing - some of my relatives tell me, she employs a LOT of illegal workers. It's why she's so successful. Everyone thinks she's a great business leader, but her fortune is predicated on cheap labor.

Now I have heard of stories of jobs not being filled in poor parts of the country - people just won't take them. I find that a little hard to believe; I don't think we are hearing the whole story. I had gone from a good paying job as an entry-level engineer - to struggling to find ANY work, thereby spending many years working crap jobs in the heat, in the snow, in filth and working long hours for jerk bosses - because I needed the money.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Now I have heard of stories of jobs not being filled in poor parts of the country - people just won't take them. I find that a little hard to believe; I don't think we are hearing the whole story.


why work if you can get 20 - 30 k in benefits and live in a double wide in a trailer park somewhere in No Where Appalachia
 

black dog

Free America
I'll tell you where there is no illegals, where there is no jobs available. The town I live in has virtually no Spanish here at all. There's no jobs, The jobs that are available are with large multi national company's factorys and your paperwork must be in order.
The only Spanish that roll through here are during Aug and Sept for picking tomatoes, peppers for Red Gold at Pack time.
All of them are H2b workers.
The landscape / lawn mowing here is done by white and black guys.
 

black dog

Free America
why work if you can get 20 - 30 k in benefits and live in a double wide in a trailer park somewhere in No Where Appalachia

The white folks tend to have that market covered. My weekend place is near the edge of Kentuckiana, huge percentage of the population is living on State, Federal money.
Huge Huge Aids, Drug, Alcohol problems.
 

philibusters

Active Member
How did America do it before this huge influx of illegals?

Huge corporations tend to use the Federal guest worker programs that have been in place for decades. Even smaller responsible Companys do the same.

If you believe that illegals are all working for low wages you just might want to visit a new housing project being built, local factorys along with some skilled trades and see who is working and ask them what they make.

America for the majority of its history has always had access to cheap immigrant labor. For the first 150 years of our existence we pretty much put no restrictions on immigration other than to deny criminals and the sick. In fact the majority of us on this forum probably have at least, but probably a couple immigrant ancestors who once constituted the cheap labor force.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
why work if you can get 20 - 30 k in benefits and live in a double wide in a trailer park somewhere in No Where Appalachia

Well, I lost my job in the 80's. TECHNICALLY, I quit because I wanted to be, of all things, a missionary. But I was terrible at it. A case of a little too much optimism. Sometimes idealism just isn't enough.
But engineering jobs got scarcer as time rolled on without having any recent experience.

I had jobs shoveling foul-smelling mud; putting up clapboard in snow up to my knees; factory work - for morons.
I dug ditches, swung a hammer, cleaned construction sites.
I did roofing - the hot, roll roofing stuff with tar and blow torches.
For a while, I delivered car parts, pizzas and a motor paper route all at once.
I even shoveled radioactive waste in full hazmat suit.

I don't think a single one paid more than 8 bucks an hour. Miserable work, I came home stinking.
Most jobs, I got there by bike - LONG commutes. I used to bicycle from Lowell to Billerica every day.
To work for a morning shift doing clerical work.

THIS is why I don't believe there's work Americans won't do. Because I did it. And I am far from exceptional.
I just needed the money.

Maybe the country has changed.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I just needed the money.

Maybe the country has changed.



you had some dignity and pride ....... people are lazy, and have realized they can survive doing NOTHING being 'POOR' in America is quite pleasant
- AC, TV, Cable, Smart Phone .....
- 3 squares a day .....
 

philibusters

Active Member
Well, I lost my job in the 80's. TECHNICALLY, I quit because I wanted to be, of all things, a missionary. But I was terrible at it. A case of a little too much optimism. Sometimes idealism just isn't enough.
But engineering jobs got scarcer as time rolled on without having any recent experience.

I had jobs shoveling foul-smelling mud; putting up clapboard in snow up to my knees; factory work - for morons.
I dug ditches, swung a hammer, cleaned construction sites.
I did roofing - the hot, roll roofing stuff with tar and blow torches.
For a while, I delivered car parts, pizzas and a motor paper route all at once.
I even shoveled radioactive waste in full hazmat suit.

I don't think a single one paid more than 8 bucks an hour. Miserable work, I came home stinking.
Most jobs, I got there by bike - LONG commutes. I used to bicycle from Lowell to Billerica every day.
To work for a morning shift doing clerical work.

THIS is why I don't believe there's work Americans won't do. Because I did it. And I am far from exceptional.
I just needed the money.

Maybe the country has changed.

Sadly I think there are a lot of Americans who won't do that type of work unless they have. If they can qualify for gov't aid whether it be unemployment or welfare if they have children (or a fake disability claim with the gov't) or whether they can rely on a spouse or other family to get by--they don't want to work for $10 a hour. A lot of these same people don't have the drive to improve their job skills either by going to community college or working as an apprentice in a trade making $9 or $10 a hour. So these people end not contributing to the economy.

When I finished law school I couldn't find a job for about a year so I took a $10 a hour job in a bookstore. Work was fairly pleasant so it wasn't a bad job, but it would have been hard to survive off of it without help from my parents (who let me live at their house rent free for that year--my only responsibilities were my car payments (which were like $175 a month, car insurance, and I contributed a small amount of groceries, so my life was not really that bad as I had a little bit of spending money). But even though my life was decent, I could see that if you had to support yourself $10 a hour would be very hard and may not seem like it was worth the effort. Hence why people need to be motivated to improve their work skills by going to school or learning a trade.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
. I used to bicycle from Lowell to Billerica every day.
To work for a morning shift doing clerical work.

THIS is why I don't believe there's work Americans won't do. Because I did it. And I am far from exceptional.
I just needed the money.

Maybe the country has changed.

I don't think so, but the pressure is to compete against guy who will sleep 10 to a two bedroom house and live communally and so can make it on 7-8 an hour. Hard to convince anyone to live like that.

I know how long that run is, kudos to you. After I got out of the Navy after 12 years, I spent six months working for 84, pulling in $6.25 an hour. Tried using unemployment, lasted two weeks, that check made me feel dirty....
 

black dog

Free America
Only 10? I think you are light in your count. I know of a 2 bedroom home in Glen Burnie that had 23 living in it. The water bill was 6 to 800 bucks a quarter. The 10 or 12 men that lived in the house worked for my Sister and her Husband.
The basement looked like hot racks in a submarine.
 
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