Breakup of the West?

[GURPS]

Breakup of the West?



By the time Air Force One started down the runaway at Naval Air Station Sigonella in Sicily, to bring President Trump home, the Atlantic had grown markedly wider than it was when he flew to Riyadh.

In a Munich beer hall Sunday, Angela Merkel confirmed it.

Europe must begin to look out for itself, she said, “take our fate into our own hands. … The times in which we could rely fully on others, they are somewhat over.”

Merkel’s apprehensions are understandable. A divorce could be in the cards. During his visit to NATO in Brussels and the G-7 in Sicily, Trump, with both his words and body language, revealed his thinking on who are friends and who are freeloaders.

Long before arriving, Trump had cheered Brexit, the British decision to quit the EU, and shown a preference for nationalist Marine Le Pen in the French election won handily by Emmanuel Macron.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2017/05/breakup-of-the-west/#8i4ZCCGOru75yFdh.99

 

[SamSpade]

I think that might just be posturing by Merkel.

My youngest acts like this - she will take something from her brother and declare that he is *sharing*.

You cannot honestly have a partnership with someone who becomes comfortable with you doing all the heavy lifting and them -- supervising.
And they've been skating too long. If they want an alliance, they have to do their share.

I might amend Merkel's statements to "The times in which we DEPEND on others, they are somewhat over".

 

[PsyOps]

Shouldn't it be our goal - to go in, help them out, set up an environment where they can stand on their own in every way possible, then get out?

 

[vraiblonde]

I heard Merkel's comments before I knew what they were in reference to. I thought that Trump had shamed her into taking responsibility for her country and acknowledging that she needed to step up her game.

Then I find that she's bitching because her welfare gravy train is over.

This is what happens when you make dependents of these people: they aren't grateful and they come to feel entitled to your largess. It's like the welfare bebe mama with the revolving door of crackhead boyfriends who gets all pissed off when you tell her she's going to have to get a job and pay her own way.. "WHAT???"

 

[SamSpade]

I heard Merkel's comments before I knew what they were in reference to. I thought that Trump had shamed her into taking responsibility for her country and acknowledging that she needed to step up her game.

Then I find that she's bitching because her welfare gravy train is over.

This is what happens when you make dependents of these people: they aren't grateful and they come to feel entitled to your largess. It's like the welfare bebe mama with the revolving door of crackhead boyfriends who gets all pissed off when you tell her she's going to have to get a job and pay her own way.. "WHAT???"

What I don't get is - like other things - these were targets everyone AGREED to. Why would you agree to something you don't intend to fulfill?
Kind of like the emissions stuff they agree to.

 

[Hijinx]

What I don't get is - like other things - these were targets everyone AGREED to. Why would you agree to something you don't intend to fulfill?
Kind of like the emissions stuff they agree to.

How come the German leaders always give speeches in Munich beer halls.?
Didn't a big time German do that in 1923?

 

[SamSpade]

How come the German leaders always give speeches in Munich beer halls.?
Didn't a big time German do that in 1923?

Never seen one in person, but I've seen pictures - they can hold quite a lot of people and some of them are - ornate.
Maybe it's the historic nature?

I mean, I GET some of why they get upset although I don't agree - they sneer at our expense on defense, but they skimp on their own - because they can count on us.
It *may* be because they don't believe such costs are necessary - but then they shouldn't AGREE to them.

 

[GURPS]

- they sneer at our expense on defense, but they skimp on their own - because they can count on us.

my understand is the German Military has become another 'social program' to stick people .....

 

[This_person]

Shouldn't it be our goal - to go in, help them out, set up an environment where they can stand on their own in every way possible, then get out?

It depends. If we are trying to control them as puppet countries, a la the Soviet Union, then no. If we are looking at true "support", not control, then yes.

 

[PsyOps]

It depends. If we are trying to control them as puppet countries, a la the Soviet Union, then no. If we are looking at true "support", not control, then yes.

You sound like you support the US playing puppet master. This demands an answer to my ongoing question: What has any of it solved? Sure, we won the Cold War. Decades later, and the globe is a less safe place. What are we getting out of the trillions being spent keeping out troops all over the world?

 

[This_person]

You sound like you support the US playing puppet master. This demands an answer to my ongoing question: What has any of it solved? Sure, we won the Cold War. Decades later, and the globe is a less safe place. What are we getting out of the trillions being spent keeping out troops all over the world?

I'm not an advocate of Puppet Master at all.

I would argue that the world is a safer place now than it has ever been. Annual war deaths are even lower than they were in the 1950's, homicide rates are at historically-low levels, gross poverty (even living on less than $1.25/day) is at historic lows (in 1900, something like 70% were in extreme poverty, 85% in poverty; in 2000 it's like 20 and 50, respectively...living on <$1.25/day was 52% in 1981, 21% in 2010), in 1901 there were 11 democracies in the world - today there are around 90.

I really think the world is better off, and I think the US is a good part of that.

 

[Clem72]

Shouldn't it be our goal - to go in, help them out, set up an environment where they can stand on their own in every way possible, then get out?

No. Germany still needs adult supervision. They have simply traded in the swastika for a recycling logo, and racial superiority for ideological superiority. Let them have a standing army again, and they will try to force their green ideals at the point of a gun.

 

[GURPS]

Sure, we won the Cold War. Decades later, and the globe is a less safe place.

I'd say we were safer .... during the Cold War

 

[PsyOps]

No. Germany still needs adult supervision. They have simply traded in the swastika for a recycling logo, and racial superiority for ideological superiority. Let them have a standing army again, and they will try to force their green ideals at the point of a gun.

They do have a standing military. Every man is required to serve (I think it is) 2 years.

Having lived there for 3 years, the people seemed to have learned their lesson. The fact that they have made laws that ban any mention of Nazism is a pretty good indication. And that's self-imposed. I think it's funny how attracted German women are to American black men.

 

[PsyOps]

I'd say we were safer .... during the Cold War

This is probably true. Back in '86 I was able to travel through the 'corridor' from West Germany, through East Germany, to Berlin. Although the travel was very strict - they stamped your travel ticket with the current time and what time you should arrive in Berlin at the checkpoint. If you didn't arrive at the right time (give or take) you could be arrested. There were watch towers and look out posts in trees the entire way. But, no one bothered us. If you followed the rules, it was a safe trip.

For what it's worth... like Iraq under Saddam, the Eastern European sector was more stable under Soviet rule. Even before all this terrorism thing cropped up, when the wall came down, the flood of former soviet citizens caused economic and social unrest, especially in Germany. I believe our constant focus on the USSR kept us largely out of the mess in the Mideast. And it kept them (Islam) out of Europe; well, except for Turks.

 

[PsyOps]

I'm not an advocate of Puppet Master at all.

I would argue that the world is a safer place now than it has ever been. Annual war deaths are even lower than they were in the 1950's, homicide rates are at historically-low levels, gross poverty (even living on less than $1.25/day) is at historic lows (in 1900, something like 70% were in extreme poverty, 85% in poverty; in 2000 it's like 20 and 50, respectively...living on <$1.25/day was 52% in 1981, 21% in 2010), in 1901 there were 11 democracies in the world - today there are around 90.

I really think the world is better off, and I think the US is a good part of that.

So, you're trying to say that we live a more stable world today than, say, 20-30 years ago?

 

[This_person]

So, you're trying to say that we live a more stable world today than, say, 20-30 years ago?

That's what the data supports

 

[Gilligan]

That's what the data supports

I'm betting it's just a lull.

:buysmoreammo:

 

[This_person]

I'm betting it's just a lull.

:buysmoreammo:

I'm guessing the more ammo people like us have, the calmer things will be (at least in the US).