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Thread: Calvert to get stationary License Plate Readers

  1. #11
    Plate readers don't generate money you say.....

    http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagela...9e550f48e.html


    With less money from the state and bounced-check funds drying up, Oklahoma district attorneys are turning to issuing tickets and putting people on probation through their offices — activities typically left to police, counties and the Department of Corrections.

    Their newest effort that yields revenue is to crack down on uninsured drivers using a system that scans the license plates of hundreds of thousands of Oklahomans on roadways every year.

    In March, the District Attorneys Council, which coordinates state funding for Oklahoma’s 27 district attorneys, recommended a vendor to provide automated license plate scanners. The vendor’s name is being withheld until the contract is finalized.

    The scanning devices, which will connect to a database of insured drivers, could start appearing on roadways by the end of the year. Uninsured motorists will get citations in the mail and, if they don’t successfully appeal, pay fines to district attorneys. If they obtain insurance, they can prevent the charges from going on their permanent record. No police or state troopers will be involved in the process.

    District attorneys say the purpose of the program is to reduce the large number of uninsured drivers in the state — a problem that pushes up insurance rates and medical costs and contributes to hit-and-run accidents.

    But the financial incentive for district attorney’s offices is also strong.

    As state funding for their budgets has declined, district attorneys have looked to alternative ways to generate revenue for prosecuting criminals and providing other services.

    Ticketed by the DA
    Authorized by legislation in 2016, the Uninsured Vehicle Enforcement Diversion Program would allow an uninsured driver to enter a deferred prosecution agreement with the district attorney. The driver would pay the DA’s office an amount equal to the fees that would have been paid to the court had a criminal case been filed, but keeps a charge of driving without insurance off the driver’s record.

    Similar proposals and legislation in other states have been rejected. Among the issues are privacy concerns as they relate to whether data collected on vehicle owners will be kept or shared.

    Cleveland and Rogers counties, Oklahoma City, the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control and the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety have discussed or implemented license plate scanners. However, none is using them to catch uninsured drivers.

    District Attorney Mike Boring, whose office represents Beaver, Cimarron, Harper and Texas counties, said: “What this program does is give someone the ability to: A. Go get the insurance they’re required to have, and B. We put them on the deferred program where there’s not a citation filed against them, so nothing goes on their record.”

    According to a 2014 report from the Insurance Information Institute, one in four Oklahoma drivers is uninsured. Boring said efforts to bring the uninsured rate down in the past have not been effective.

    In order for the program to work, the state’s motor vehicle insurance database will require upgrades, said DA Council Executive Coordinator Trent Baggett.

    Two bills in the Legislature are aimed at transferring the state’s motor vehicle insurance database from the Department of Public Safety to the Oklahoma Insurance Department. Senate Bill 115 was approved and sent to the governor.

    Under the current law, at least 95 percent of motor vehicle insurers in the state, by market share, must be able to report to the database instantaneously before the program can begin. Currently, insurers must report to the DPS-run database, and they may offer real-time verification or upload lists of policyholders.

    Transferring control and operation of the database from DPS to the Insurance Department will allow for rules to be created mandating reporting to the database, Boring said, while also allowing for an upgrade to the system’s usability.

    “The issue there has been severe lack of funding and the inability of the Department of Public Safety to meet its primary responsibilities and not having the extra money to devote to hardware and software and get that program working,” Boring said.


    When the system goes live, there will probably be traffic tests in certain areas of the state, beginning with vehicle-mounted cameras, Boring said. In higher-traffic areas, cameras may be pole-mounted, and movable trailer-mounted cameras may eventually be used, he said.

    “The idea is to (eventually) get broad coverage,” he said. “We want to do this on a gradual basis.”

    Boring said it’s likely the cameras will not come at a cost to DAs’ offices, meaning that the vendor will likely get a cut of the fees paid under the program.

    For those caught by the cameras, the cost will be around $200, Boring said. That is less than if criminal charges were filed and the person would not lose their driver’s license.

    Boring said he was not sure how much money the program would generate for district attorneys. It depends on the vendor contract and the effects of a public awareness campaign.

    “If we’re half as successful as we hope we can be, after a couple of years that revenue is going to drop,” Boring said.

    The goal of the program is increase the number of insured drivers, not bring in money, he said.

    “This is a less harsh way of doing that,” Boring said. “If revenue were the driving factor, I’d be saying let’s put one on every street corner.”
    Last edited by black dog; 06-21-2017 at 11:09 PM.
    Originally Posted by littlelady View Post
    I just reported you. You are one scary individual.

  2. #12
    If I may ...

    Quote Originally Posted by black dog View Post
    I'm from the Calvert Sheriff's Dept and I'm here to help
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    These guys are an embarrassment. The sheriff's office is supposed to be made up of peace officers that elicit a sense of community, not as a standing army. I have nothing but contempt for Evans and his deputies. State troopers are just as capable as these deputies, if not more so, yet somehow, still manage to wear a respectable uniform while preforming their duties, and command respect because of their appearance and professionalism. Evans has trashed the office of the sheriff.
    If the military wanted you to have a spouse, or family, they would have issued you one.

  3. #13
    How would folks like the Elementary School Resource Officer to show up all Tommy Tactical at the elementary / junior High School prepared for work.
    Originally Posted by littlelady View Post
    I just reported you. You are one scary individual.

  4. #14
    I am sure I am in the minority here but I don't have much of an issue with it - AS LONG AS IT STAYS NOT FOR PROFIT. Big caveat I know. Here's my thought: I've seen them work. A couple months back I actually got pulled out of my truck at gunpoint (talk about a butthole puckering sequence of events) because a stationary State Trooper had one of these mounted on his SUV. When I drove by him on Rt 4 south, it picked up my truck and had it flagged as a stolen vehicle. Long story short - truck was towed, reported stolen, found/called in as found, City of Baltimore never cleared it. Point being, it picked me out of a mess of traffic and had it been stolen, would've brought me my truck back.

    As I see it, you cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy while operating outside in public (on roads, in public buildings, etc.). If you're upset that a reader captures the fact that you're crossing the Calvert/Anne Arundel County line at 340pm on a Friday - it calls into question why that upsets you. How is that any different than neighbor Tom seeing you or someone taking your picture? You're in public and therefore, can be seen and documented. So, in that aspect, I don't mind it because ultimately I think it serves the greater good without changing the dynamic of your rights.

    If they start scamming it for profit, than that is an issue, because it changes the dynamic of you being found by law enforcement when needed (because of a crime or such) vs. advertising your location for the profit and benefit of a third party.

  5. #15
    Power with Control glhs837's Avatar
    Member Since
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    19,606
    Quote Originally Posted by black dog View Post
    Plate readers don't generate money you say.....

    But the financial incentive for district attorney’s offices is also strong.
    As state funding for their budgets has declined, district attorneys have looked to alternative ways to generate revenue for prosecuting criminals and providing other services.
    District Attorney Mike Boring, whose office represents Beaver, Cimarron, Harper and Texas counties, said: “What this program does is give someone the ability to: A. Go get the insurance they’re required to have, and B. We put them on the deferred program where there’s not a citation filed against them, so nothing goes on their record.”
    According to a 2014 report from the Insurance Information Institute, one in four Oklahoma drivers is uninsured. Boring said efforts to bring the uninsured rate down in the past have not been effective.
    “The issue there has been severe lack of funding and the inability of the Department of Public Safety to meet its primary responsibilities and not having the extra money to devote to hardware and software and get that program working,” Boring said.
    Boring said it’s likely the cameras will not come at a cost to DAs’ offices, meaning that the vendor will likely get a cut of the fees paid under the program.
    For those caught by the cameras, the cost will be around $200, Boring said. That is less than if criminal charges were filed and the person would not lose their driver’s license.
    The goal of the program is increase the number of insured drivers, not bring in money, he said.
    “This is a less harsh way of doing that,” Boring said. “If revenue were the driving factor, I’d be saying let’s put one on every street corner.”

    My mistake, last time I looked at these, that sort of program was being talked about, but none had been implemented yet. Normally the companies lease these to repo folks and offer them free to local govts in return for the data. And since they are private companies, there's no rules on the data, so they can sell access to folks like private investigators and such.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    I am sure I am in the minority here but I don't have much of an issue with it - AS LONG AS IT STAYS NOT FOR PROFIT. Big caveat I know. Here's my thought: I've seen them work. A couple months back I actually got pulled out of my truck at gunpoint (talk about a butthole puckering sequence of events) because a stationary State Trooper had one of these mounted on his SUV. When I drove by him on Rt 4 south, it picked up my truck and had it flagged as a stolen vehicle. Long story short - truck was towed, reported stolen, found/called in as found, City of Baltimore never cleared it. Point being, it picked me out of a mess of traffic and had it been stolen, would've brought me my truck back.

    As I see it, you cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy while operating outside in public (on roads, in public buildings, etc.). If you're upset that a reader captures the fact that you're crossing the Calvert/Anne Arundel County line at 340pm on a Friday - it calls into question why that upsets you. How is that any different than neighbor Tom seeing you or someone taking your picture? You're in public and therefore, can be seen and documented. So, in that aspect, I don't mind it because ultimately I think it serves the greater good without changing the dynamic of your rights.

    If they start scamming it for profit, than that is an issue, because it changes the dynamic of you being found by law enforcement when needed (because of a crime or such) vs. advertising your location for the profit and benefit of a third party.
    Okay, minus the for profit thing. Why it bothers me? While I have no expectation of privacy while cruising around, I also feel I should have a reasonable expectation that my govt should not be keeping a database of my movements. If these things kept a hotlist, and checked against it for those plates in interest, and wiped all other plates it scanned after that check, I would have no problem. But that's not what happens. To me, mass surveillance of normal citizens reeks of the Stasi. How far do you go in recording citizens movements just in case they might get involved in a crime later? Where would you like your chip implanted, Citizen? It makes you safer, after all........

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.8e681bdb3e28

    https://cnsmaryland.org/2014/02/12/m...eral-concerns/

    Of the 29 million plates recorded from January to May of that same year, only 0.2 percent – about 1 in 500 – were associated with a crime, suspicion of a crime, or minor registration issues.

    Of that 0.2 percent, a staggering 97 percent were related to revoked registration or violation of Maryland’s Vehicle Emission Inspection Program, according to law enforcement documents obtained by the ACLU through a public records request.

    In simpler terms, for every million plate reads in Maryland, only 47 were potentially associated with more serious crimes these recording systems were designed to prevent – including locating stolen vehicles and identifying persons of interest. The rest of the matched reads, known as “hits,” were simple, non-violent violations.
    "I aim to misbehave."

  6. #16
    LMAO are you guise scared of the big scary clothing hahahahahha
    All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day - Mr. J

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by thurley42 View Post
    LMAO are you guise scared of the big scary clothing hahahahahha
    Uh..what?
    You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. -Frank Zappa

  8. #18
    If I may ...

    Quote Originally Posted by thurley42 View Post
    LMAO are you guise scared of the big scary clothing hahahahahha
    Scared! Ha! Far from it. Want to see a professional looking deputy? Look at our neighbors right across the bay in Queen Anne.

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    Notice that they are not all Rambo'd up? They still have all the equipment necessary to perform their duties, yet still look respectful and represent the community. Calvert County has become a joke.
    If the military wanted you to have a spouse, or family, they would have issued you one.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    I am sure I am in the minority here but I don't have much of an issue with it - AS LONG AS IT STAYS NOT FOR PROFIT. Big caveat I know. Here's my thought: I've seen them work. A couple months back I actually got pulled out of my truck at gunpoint (talk about a butthole puckering sequence of events) because a stationary State Trooper had one of these mounted on his SUV. When I drove by him on Rt 4 south, it picked up my truck and had it flagged as a stolen vehicle. Long story short - truck was towed, reported stolen, found/called in as found, City of Baltimore never cleared it. Point being, it picked me out of a mess of traffic and had it been stolen, would've brought me my truck back.

    As I see it, you cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy while operating outside in public (on roads, in public buildings, etc.). If you're upset that a reader captures the fact that you're crossing the Calvert/Anne Arundel County line at 340pm on a Friday - it calls into question why that upsets you. How is that any different than neighbor Tom seeing you or someone taking your picture? You're in public and therefore, can be seen and documented. So, in that aspect, I don't mind it because ultimately I think it serves the greater good without changing the dynamic of your rights.

    If they start scamming it for profit, than that is an issue, because it changes the dynamic of you being found by law enforcement when needed (because of a crime or such) vs. advertising your location for the profit and benefit of a third party.
    My issue has always been privacy, but I also understand that I'm in a minority that doesn't believe Americans should be spied on by their own govt. So, I've accepted the fact that Americans have granted their govt. wide powers to do what they will.

    My main issue in this case isn't necessarily the LPRs, it's with the Sheriff. He's being disingenuous in saying he's doing it solely for the (rare) bank or armed robbery. When my local convenience store was robbed at gun point, a deputy was stationed there overnight for some time. When was the last time a Deputy in Calvert was standing by protecting a business? When was the last time a Deputy was in the area these readers will be who wasn't catching speeders? If the Sheriff spent more time focusing on policing the community rather than focusing on Rt.4 and traffic violations, who knows. Some of us knew this would happen after the cameras went up around schools. "It's for the safety of the children" was what we were told, regardless of the fact that little to no children have ever been hit in those areas. Now, the money they get from those is simply being used to fund more of these automated enforcement devices.

    If you think the public will ever know if they sell any of the info, you're crazy. I'm willing to bet it gets used to catch an actual criminal a handful of times (if that), but will certainly be used to monitor all the traffic leaving the county for any and every violation they find.
    Crybaby Cripplecrow Hanging on a Monkey's Toe Club

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
    I am sure I am in the minority here but .....

    If you're upset that a reader captures the fact that you're crossing the Calvert/Anne Arundel County line at 340pm on a Friday - it calls into question why that upsets you.

    If they start scamming it for profit, than that is an issue, .
    This time you are. You know how dictators come to power? People who are willing to follow, without question, for the promise of security.

    How about we just go to guilty until proven innocent. Let's see, collect AND STORE, terabytes of data that can later be processed by some entrepreneur for all types of things. Let's just follow the activity of this vehicle / person. Let's develop a pattern. If it were Google doing it you would be upset (they do but you can turn it off and delete the history - can't do that when "the government" owns it).

    They are not purchasing the equipment, they lease it, much like the traffic cameras. The vendor gets paid based on the revenue it generates. I call that, "for profit". Don't you?

    It really pisses me off when people use that lame excuse, "well if you aren't guilty of something, why does it matter"
    It matters because we are not supposed to be subject to unwarranted search and seizure. Police departments have turned the "routine traffic stop" into just that. Any excuse, "one of your bulbs is out". But they got to have your license, registration, proof of insurance and, oh, let me just look around your vehicle a bit and ask some questions while I check your record.
    Now when they ask you where you where and where you are going, they can catch you in a lie.
    Your signature can not be longer than 100 characters - BS

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