Large merchant vessel container ship collides with US Navy destroyer

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/16/polit...-collides-with-merchant-ship-japan/index.html

I haven't seen this posted yet. Kinda weird since we are near a large Navy presence. Is there someone here that can explain how this collision is possible and who might be at fault? Current or retired Naval seaman? Merchant seaman? Having never served in the Navy, I haven't any idea. From the title of the story and what appears to have actually happened, it seems that the merchant ship collided with the destroyer, not as the title would suggest, that the destroyer collided with the merchant ship. Would really like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[littlelady]

I have been wondering about this incident, too. Hope you get some good feedback.

So sad for the 7 that died.

 

[hotbikermama40]

I have been wondering about this incident, too. Hope you get some good feedback.

So sad for the 7 that died.

I served in the Navy, and was stationed on a destroyer tender (USS Jason AR-8) but can't tell you much. I do know that both of these ships were large enough that they would not be able to move quickly if needed, and so it is likely the collision once seen coming was unavoidable. My question when my husband and I read about it over this past weekend was what the hell went on with their radar and radio equipment? And I can't remember if the article specified what time of day/night the collision happened? Because if it was at nighttime, and the Navy carrier were undergoing an at sea exercise, they might have gone airtight, watertight and completely 'dark' - meaning not only lights out, but radio silent. This probably doesn't help, so I'm sorry! My knowledge of USN related info is spotty, at best, after 25 years!

 

[Merlin99]

If I may ...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/16/polit...-collides-with-merchant-ship-japan/index.html

I haven't seen this posted yet. Kinda weird since we are near a large Navy presence. Is there someone here that can explain how this collision is possible and who might be at fault? Current or retired Naval seaman? Merchant seaman? Having never served in the Navy, I haven't any idea. From the title of the story and what appears to have actually happened, it seems that the merchant ship collided with the destroyer, not as the title would suggest, that the destroyer collided with the merchant ship. Would really like to hear your thoughts on this.

A few days ago.

http://forums.somd.com/threads/321561-Navy-destroyer-collides-with-huge-cargo-ship

 

[hotbikermama40]

I served in the Navy, and was stationed on a destroyer tender (USS Jason AR-8) but can't tell you much. I do know that both of these ships were large enough that they would not be able to move quickly if needed, and so it is likely the collision once seen coming was unavoidable. My question when my husband and I read about it over this past weekend was what the hell went on with their radar and radio equipment? And I can't remember if the article specified what time of day/night the collision happened? Because if it was at nighttime, and the Navy carrier were undergoing an at sea exercise, they might have gone airtight, watertight and completely 'dark' - meaning not only lights out, but radio silent. This probably doesn't help, so I'm sorry! My knowledge of USN related info is spotty, at best, after 25 years!

Okay, the collision happened an hour and a half past midnight and the Fitzgerald was at sea for "routine operations in the area". She's a warship, so my guess is REFTRA (refresher training) and that protocol calls for the ship being sealed air and watertight and no lights. Even out on what is called the weather decks, sailors can't 'openly' smoke because the light of a cigarette could be seen for a significant way out.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

The huge container ship made two U turns right before the collision, I say it was on purpose or the captain was banging a woman up against the wheel of the ship.

 

[littlelady]

I served in the Navy, and was stationed on a destroyer tender (USS Jason AR-8) but can't tell you much. I do know that both of these ships were large enough that they would not be able to move quickly if needed, and so it is likely the collision once seen coming was unavoidable. My question when my husband and I read about it over this past weekend was what the hell went on with their radar and radio equipment? And I can't remember if the article specified what time of day/night the collision happened? Because if it was at nighttime, and the Navy carrier were undergoing an at sea exercise, they might have gone airtight, watertight and completely 'dark' - meaning not only lights out, but radio silent. This probably doesn't help, so I'm sorry! My knowledge of USN related info is spotty, at best, after 25 years!

First, thank you for your service, brave one. And, thanks for the info.

 

[littlelady]

A few days ago.

http://forums.somd.com/threads/321561-Navy-destroyer-collides-with-huge-cargo-ship

I can't keep up!

 

[hotbikermama40]

First, thank you for your service, brave one. And, thanks for the info.

Your welcome

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

Okay, the collision happened an hour and a half past midnight and the Fitzgerald was at sea for "routine operations in the area". She's a warship, so my guess is REFTRA (refresher training) and that protocol calls for the ship being sealed air and watertight and no lights. Even out on what is called the weather decks, sailors can't 'openly' smoke because the light of a cigarette could be seen for a significant way out.

Is this akin to a submarine running silent?

 

[GURPS]

... and the Navy carrier were undergoing an at sea exercise ......

I believe the Navy ship involved is a Frigate or DD ...

 

[Ken King]

Found this, - http://taskandpurpose.com/navy-begins-investigation-uss-fitzgerald-collision/ - don't know if it is satire or not.

Seventh Fleet spokesman Cmdr. Bill Clinton told the New York Times that the Navy would defer to a timeline established by the twin branch investigations.

 

[Gilligan]

I believe the Navy ship involved is a Frigate or DD ...

DDG, yes. Quite maneuverable...vastly more so, when compared to the freighter.

As is common practice for security reasons, the DDG's AIS was turned off. So without that, an entire layer of automated collision avoidance was down. However, that does not explain the incident because there would be a bridge watch that included someone on the ship's radar, in addition to helmsman and OOD.

 

[hotbikermama40]

If I may ...



Is this akin to a submarine running silent?

Wouldn't know, I know zero about submarines

 

[PJay]

Not ruling anything out


http://therightscoop.com/video-mili...-in-cargo-ship-collision-with-uss-fitzgerald/

 

[nutz]

DDG, yes. Quite maneuverable...vastly more so, when compared to the freighter.

As is common practice for security reasons, the DDG's AIS was turned off. So without that, an entire layer of automated collision avoidance was down. However, that does not explain the incident because there would be a bridge watch that included someone on the ship's radar, in addition to helmsman and OOD.

Isn't AIS a commercial navigation aid? US Navy ships don't have other types of CAS besides radar and watchmen? IFF?

While in "open sea" how close do ships normally travel apart? Something of this size (container ship) would have a turning radius of what, 1/2 mile or more? Stopping in how many thousands of feet?

 

[stgislander]

Isn't AIS a commercial navigation aid? US Navy ships don't have other types of CAS besides radar and watchmen? IFF?

While in "open sea" how close do ships normally travel apart? Something of this size (container ship) would have a turning radius of what, 1/2 mile or more? Stopping in how many thousands of feet?

I think all newer ships, including Naval vessels, have AIS. The Egyptian missile boats we worked on have AIS. They just don't broadcast their identifier.

 

[Gilligan]

Isn't AIS a commercial navigation aid? US Navy ships don't have other types of CAS besides radar and watchmen? IFF?

While in "open sea" how close do ships normally travel apart? Something of this size (container ship) would have a turning radius of what, 1/2 mile or more? Stopping in how many thousands of feet?

AIS is practically universally used and installed. But as I pointed out, US naval vessels (and probably other navies as well) often turn theirs off when not actually in traffic-controlled sea lanes. For security reasons.

And yes, the radar systems on modern ships - and especially naval warships - have all sorts of tracking and monitoring functions built in. At the very least, several "rings" are defined by range that will, when a return (vessel, fixed structure..whatever) falls inside them, emit some type of notification, warning or alarm. Further, if a return is moving, it's speed and track direction will be computed and displayed as well.

I've stood bridge watches at night on smaller vessels, whilst crossing, at 90-degrees relative to bulk of traffic in lanes, some of the busiest ports in the world..like Rotterdam, for example, or Hamburg. Talk about busy!....it can get pretty dicey..but it gets done safely for all concerned. So how this DDG got basically "run over" in the middle of the night...going to be real interesting to find out how.

 

[GURPS]

So how this DDG got basically "run over" in the middle of the night...going to be real interesting to find out how.

last I heard the stories still were not straight ...
... the navy still claims the accident was at 0230 ish
... crew on the container ship 0130 ish [after making 2 u-turns before the collision]

 

[officeguy]

The huge container ship made two U turns right before the collision, I say it was on purpose or the captain was banging a woman up against the wheel of the ship.

The reported time of the accident is off by an hour. The impact was probably that first course deviation. They steamed on for 30min until the U-turn. It looks like they either didn't notice the initial impact or it took a while to get the crew in place required to maneuver the boat. There is a good chance the bridge on the merchant vessel was either unattended or it was staffed with a unqualified watchstander.

None of that explains how the highly maneuverable destroyer allowed itself to get hit by a large vessel that was broadcasting an AIS signal and steamed on a set heading.

Under colregs, the distribution of blame will hinge on whether this was a 'crossing' or an 'overtaking'. Either way, both skippers will share some of the responsibility.