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Thread: Hey, I have an idea!

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    You're right - we should charge Winchester with murders, and put the murderers in rehab.
    Don't say I am right, I never said that. That's your idea.

    Try responding without trying to interpret something you know nothing about.

  2. #22
    #*! boat! Gilligan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by black dog View Post
    When my sister owned her place in Annapolis, I was shocked that MD didn't have any drama nor happy hour laws. I find it interesting that those laws have never passed in MD, makes me wonder who owns what...
    Some discussion of it here...

    https://www.cochranfirmdc.com/maryla...out-liability/
    You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. -Frank Zappa

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilligan View Post
    Thanks, my dad reminded me about the owners son of King Pontiac in Gaithersburg 30+ years ago got trashed at a local bar and his friends ( I think one was a emt ) dropped him off inside his front door of his home on the farm. He passed out just inside his door and asperated and died.
    His father tried to sue a few over his sons death.
    Proud to be a cereal comma user.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by black dog View Post
    So you believe that a bartender that over serves a patron and or serves a patron that is plainly over the line for alcohol consumption shouldn't also be held liable in some cases along with the drunk?
    Unless they're shoving the keys into the hands of the drunk and ordering the drunk to drive, no, I do not see they have real responsibility. Can the argument be made? Sure! But, I can't hold them legally responsible, because they are not the ones committing the crime nor are they ordering the crime to be committed. I've never been to a bar that did not have a taxi on-call for taking drunks home. They're JOB is to sell as much alcohol as the person paying will buy. I can't fault them for doing their job, legally.

    I also would not frequent a bar that had a bartender that let me drive home drunk, knowing I was my driver. But, it still is MY responsibility. I was sober enough to make the decision to drink another drink when I drank the drink that put me over the line to not being sober enough to make a good decision.

    And what about the gun store and the private citizen be that knowingly sell a firearm to a felon, drunk, addict , mentality ill person and something bad happens...
    They also bear no responsibility?
    Well, now, that's completely different.

    Here's what I think about that, as it relates to drugs. The seller is doing something illegal, and should be prosecuted when caught selling. That said, selling heroin to someone is very different from using heroin. Just like selling a gun is very different from using a gun. If a person is a convicted felon, disallowed from owning a weapon, then the seller of the gun who KNOWS the person is a convicted felon is also doing something illegal, and thus is responsible for the action of selling the gun. It is very different from selling a gun to using it in a crime. The person who uses it in a crime is responsible for the use in the crime - NOT the seller, the user. The seller is responsible for selling the gun illegally.

    The drug seller is responsible for selling the drugs. I don't really care much about that crime, and think it should be drastically reduced in priority for drug enforcement personnel. I would rather see the drug seller telling law enforcement who uses it than the other way around. I would rather make the user so afraid of the consequences of use that the drug seller has no one to sell to.
    It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
    Jiddu Krisnamurti

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Hijinx View Post
    Don't say I am right, I never said that. That's your idea.

    Try responding without trying to interpret something you know nothing about.
    Please explain how it is different to blame the seller of the gun more than the user like blaming the seller of the drugs instead of the user.
    It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
    Jiddu Krisnamurti

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    Unless they're shoving the keys into the hands of the drunk and ordering the drunk to drive, no, I do not see they have real responsibility. Can the argument be made? Sure! But, I can't hold them legally responsible, because they are not the ones committing the crime nor are they ordering the crime to be committed. I've never been to a bar that did not have a taxi on-call for taking drunks home. They're JOB is to sell as much alcohol as the person paying will buy. I can't fault them for doing their job, legally.

    I also would not frequent a bar that had a bartender that let me drive home drunk, knowing I was my driver. But, it still is MY responsibility. I was sober enough to make the decision to drink another drink when I drank the drink that put me over the line to not being sober enough to make a good decision.



    Well, now, that's completely different.

    Here's what I think about that, as it relates to drugs. The seller is doing something illegal, and should be prosecuted when caught selling. That said, selling heroin to someone is very different from using heroin. Just like selling a gun is very different from using a gun. If a person is a convicted felon, disallowed from owning a weapon, then the seller of the gun who KNOWS the person is a convicted felon is also doing something illegal, and thus is responsible for the action of selling the gun. It is very different from selling a gun to using it in a crime. The person who uses it in a crime is responsible for the use in the crime - NOT the seller, the user. The seller is responsible for selling the gun illegally.

    The drug seller is responsible for selling the drugs. I don't really care much about that crime, and think it should be drastically reduced in priority for drug enforcement personnel. I would rather see the drug seller telling law enforcement who uses it than the other way around. I would rather make the user so afraid of the consequences of use that the drug seller has no one to sell to.
    I'm not interested in arguing this topic right now, but I will say the VFW in the town I live in closed this past Thursday. It's nothing but a drunk fest bar.
    No one would run to be post commander and one other office. Wanna guess why?
    Indiana has dram shop laws, that's why..
    They have 90 days to vote in these two positions or the post will close for good.
    Proud to be a cereal comma user.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    Please explain how it is different to blame the seller of the gun more than the user like blaming the seller of the drugs instead of the user.
    Why. It is all your idea. You explain it to yourself.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by black dog View Post
    I'm not interested in arguing this topic right now, but I will say the VFW in the town I live in closed this past Thursday. It's nothing but a drunk fest bar.
    No one would run to be post commander and one other office. Wanna guess why?
    Indiana has dram shop laws, that's why..
    They have 90 days to vote in these two positions or the post will close for good.
    Sounds like they need new bartenders.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Hijinx View Post
    Sounds like they need new bartenders.
    It's always been a constant flow of new bartenders at a few bars in town here. The hourly pay sucks for starters and drunks tend not to be good tippers on top of that.
    So the bartenders start over pouring along with over serving so they hopefully will get better tips. It gets repeated over and over..
    It's really bad at a few bars here, stumble in and crawl out. They can't walk so they have to drive. Riding mowers with no cutting decks, golf carts, mopeds with no exhaust pipes, bicycles and cars driven..
    Proud to be a cereal comma user.

  10. #30
    #*! boat! Gilligan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by black dog View Post
    It's always been a constant flow of new bartenders at a few bars in town here. The hourly pay sucks for starters and drunks tend not to be good tippers on top of that.
    So the bartenders start over pouring along with over serving so they hopefully will get better tips. It gets repeated over and over..
    It's really bad at a few bars here, stumble in and crawl out. They can't walk so they have to drive. Riding mowers with no cutting decks, golf carts, mopeds with no exhaust pipes, bicycles and cars driven..
    In an interesting contrast to that, perhaps, my bartenders (I had six or seven altogether, nearly all of them very experienced) were very careful to avoid "over serving" customers and regularly cut them off, sometimes resulting in howls of protest sometimes leading to the physical eviction of the customer. This in a state where the servers are not liable for over serving.
    You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. -Frank Zappa

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