Do we under-fund education?

This_person

Well-Known Member
The performance of 17-year-olds has been essentially stagnant across all subjects despite a near tripling of the inflation-adjusted cost of putting a child through the K–12 system.

Figure 1.jpg



Maybe we need to think about teaching methods, learning objectives, and teaching tools instead of dollars spent.
 
We need to stop fixing grades so that children can pass their classes and keep moving to the next grade even though they've failed to demonstrate they've learned the subject matter.
 

Wishbone

New Member
We need to stop fixing grades so that children can pass their classes and keep moving to the next grade even though they've failed to demonstrate they've learned the subject matter.

That must be why we have so many College Educated Morons in society these days.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
We need to stop fixing grades so that children can pass their classes and keep moving to the next grade even though they've failed to demonstrate they've learned the subject matter.

I certainly agree. But, we know we are doing this, and it continues. Why? Why do we think a higher paid teacher with a higher-paid aide and higher-paid administrators doing unproven (or worse, proven to be worse but better for "diversity") methods will aid our students' abilities to learn, to think on their own?
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

Do you really think democrat school boards, democrat teachers, democrat unions, anything democrat etc, really care about educating kids? And, do you really think that you have any control over what those in the education arena do? Other than home schooling your own kids?
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
If I may ...

Do you really think democrat school boards, democrat teachers, democrat unions, anything democrat etc, really care about educating kids? And, do you really think that you have any control over what those in the education arena do? Other than home schooling your own kids?

Certainly, if you look at the 2016 voting map, the majority of counties don't have democrat-controlled school boards. The current Secretary of Education is a Republican.

Now, we can ask, "Why is there even a federal Department of Education in the first place? Where in the enumerated powers does that authority exist?" And we would be right to do so. But, what are we doing to FIX it?
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
NO

The bureaucracy having to report back to the Federal Gov. sucks up more and more money
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Now, we can ask, "Why is there even a federal Department of Education in the first place? Where in the enumerated powers does that authority exist?"


Yet Another Good Reason To Abolish The Department Of Education

Creating the Department of Education in 1979 was certainly one of the worst blunders the nation made in that whole blunder-filled decade. Having neither a constitutional warrant nor any rationale except to reward the teachers’ unions for backing Jimmy Carter, the Department barely made it through Congress. (Even the New York Times thought it a bad idea, as Richard Vedder notes in this Pope Center article in which he explores the damage this agency has done.)

Since then, we have wasted billions on the Department but educational results are worse than ever. And now it’s evident that the bureaucrats have gone rogue, instituting regulations they have no authority to institute and violating the Administrative Procedure Act.

On April 4, 2011, the Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights (OCR) sent a letter purporting to give college and university officials guidance in complying with the law. That isn’t unusual; regulatory agencies often issue statements meant to help people understand and obey laws they enforce.

:shrug:
 
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LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

But, what are we doing to FIX it?

There is nothing we can do to fix it. The problem is so large, too large, with so many special interests, and been ingrained for so long. Sure you can go on and spin your wheels with a couple of other like minded folk, but in the end, nothing substantial will come of it. This is not defeatist, only realistic. Their armour may get chinked, but overall no internal damage/restructure. One big thing to overcome is that people's kids, the parents that have reason to fight, are constantly graduating. Once people' kids are out of school, life takes over, and other things take their focus and energy. And those in control know this. If you really want to hurt the current system, advocate for private schooling and home schooling.
 

Toxick

Splat
Maybe we need to think about teaching methods, learning objectives, and teaching tools instead of dollars spent.


Because it's way more fun for the government to bomb the ever loving piss out of countries full of brown people.
It's also fun to give the governments of those very same countries tons and tons and tons of money.
It's also more fun to build multimillion dollar airplanes, helicopters, ships and tanks for every possible contingency.
It's fun to throw dumptrucks full of money at huge corporations who already have vast sums of liquid cash.

Making sure Johnny can string a ####ing sentence together .... not so fun.
 

terbear1225

Well-Known Member
NO

The bureaucracy having to report back to the Federal Gov. sucks up more and more money

Would love to see a breakdown of how much of the increased spending goes to "administrative costs" vs. actual classroom spending.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Because it's way better for the government to bomb the ever loving piss out of countries full of brown people.
It's also fun to give the governments of those very same countries tons and tons and tons of money.
It's also more fun to build multimillion dollar airplanes, helicopters, ships and tanks for every possible contingency.
It's fun to throw dumptrucks full of money at huge corporations who already have vast sums of liquid cash.

Making sure Johnny can string a ####ing sentence together .... not so fun.

I understand and share the cynicism, but national defense is in the Constitution for the federal government's authority.

Education is, at best, a state function. Yet, a potato farmer in Idaho is paying for inner-city Chicago school kids to get better computers and illegal immigrants in Arizona to get Pell grants. And, while administrators are becoming increasingly upper class (financially) citizens, and teachers can still earn a year's wage for nine month's work, the kids aren't gaining on their scholarly abilities.

How do we FIX that?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
If I may ...

Do you really think democrat school boards, democrat teachers, democrat unions, anything democrat etc, really care about educating kids? And, do you really think that you have any control over what those in the education arena do? Other than home schooling your own kids?

Beat me to it.

Our schools have become little indoctrination tanks. When kids can graduate from high school without knowing how to spell, use grammar, or do basic math - not to mention close to zero knowledge of history - that's a failure of our school system that money won't fix.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Because it's way more fun for the government to bomb the ever loving piss out of countries full of brown people.
It's also fun to give the governments of those very same countries tons and tons and tons of money.
It's also more fun to build multimillion dollar airplanes, helicopters, ships and tanks for every possible contingency.
It's fun to throw dumptrucks full of money at huge corporations who already have vast sums of liquid cash.

Making sure Johnny can string a ####ing sentence together .... not so fun.

Are you indicating that you think schools are underfunded? I will wait for your answer before I argue with you.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
When kids can graduate from high school without knowing how to spell, use grammar, or do basic math - not to mention close to zero knowledge of history - that's a failure of our school system that money won't fix.



but I bet they know all about Patriarch Oppression, how evil Republicans are, Global Climate Warming Change, Anal Sex and Queers
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Op-Ed For better schools, abolish the politicized Department of Education and give local districts more control



History has proved the critics right. It’s time for the department to be dismantled. It has done some good, especially in pointing out education inequity. But more often it has served political, not educational, interests.

In fact, the Department of Education was created by President Carter in part as a gift to the National Education Assn., for the union’s early support of his candidacy. Politics was the department’s original sin, and that reality has gotten only worse.

Although President Reagan opposed the department’s existence, he recognized its political utility. His secretary of Education, William J. Bennett, used the influence of the office as a weapon in the culture wars by promoting “traditional” curriculums. Betsy DeVos, President-elect Trump’s choice for secretary, is likely to continue its politicization. She has a track record of advancing school vouchers and charter schools. It seems probable that she will advocate for a privatization agenda, no matter the views of local communities.

This politicization of education is most clearly evident in the 2001 No Child Left Behind Act and the department’s enforcement of its provisions. This measure — a signature part of President George W. Bush’s legacy, with an assist from Sen. Edward Kennedy — required the restructuring and potentially the closing of an entire school if all its students in specific subgroups (for example, minority, economically disadvantaged, or special ed students) did not achieve proficiency on reading and math tests. It rejected the idea that poverty, students’ home lives or other factors outside the schoolhouse might contribute to low achievement. Such suggestions were just “excuses” for bad teaching.

Of course, effective teachers, good reading and math skills, and periodic student assessments are important. But the No Child Left Behind Act had obvious failings. Universal proficiency was simply an impossible, utopian mandate. And it was a fiction that students’ life circumstances had no effect on their learning.

Rather than admit the impossibility of proficiency for all students, the Education Department took a hard line. Secretary Rod Paige declared that his “oath of office” required him to “enforce the law.” A few months after No Child Left Behind passed, he named 8,600 schools that failed to meet the law’s requirements. Unless they improved, the department would sanction them. In the face of these threats, districts slashed budgets in nontested subjects, like art and music, and students sat for exam after exam in math and reading.
 

Toxick

Splat
I understand and share the cynicism, but national defense is in the Constitution for the federal government's authority.

Indeed it is. Although my cynicism comes less from the fact that we actually DO those things, and more about HOW MUCH we do those things. If you look at a breakdown of how much money goes to "defense" (and we as a nation seem to subscribe to the philosophy that the best defense is a good offense) it's absolutely preposterous. If we diverted a chunk of that to ... say, R&D, we'd probably be colonizing and terraforming Mars.

Hyperbole? Maybe - maybe not.

The fact that corporate welfare exists at all disgusts me.


Education is, at best, a state function. Yet, a potato farmer in Idaho is paying for inner-city Chicago school kids to get better computers and illegal immigrants in Arizona to get Pell grants. And, while administrators are becoming increasingly upper class (financially) citizens, and teachers can still earn a year's wage for nine month's work, the kids aren't gaining on their scholarly abilities.

How do we FIX that?

Accountability. Voting out career politicians. Almost every item I listed benefits politicians more than the military and the corporations. So they will not voluntarily stop. Ever.

And accountability and term-limits will never happen without a sweeping societal movement where it becomes cool to actually give a damn about what happens in government. And that will never happened with the fat, contented, lotus-eating, ovine population of this doomed Republic.




Open revolt and bloodshed is the inevitable outcome.



I'm feeling particularly misanthropic this morning.
 

Toxick

Splat
Are you indicating that you think schools are underfunded? I will wait for your answer before I argue with you.



Not necessarily. IMO, education is not within the purview of the government at all.

However since we, as a people, have seemingly decided that it is, it should be appropriately funded. Based on the number of kids each individual school has. And I would argue that the lion's share of the funding should go to actual education - things like supplies (lab equipment, up-to-date textbooks, computers, etc.), ensuring teachers are well compensated based on merit, ensure we have the best teachers in the world - and less on crap like sports uniforms, and worthless bureaucrats.

Especially bureaucrats. At least sports and extra curricular activities have some value.

The fact that people who never deal with students are the ones with bigger salaries and company cars is a HUMONGOUS red flag that tells me that something has gone horribly wrong with The Plan.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Not necessarily. IMO, education is not within the purview of the government at all.

However since we, as a people, have seemingly decided that it is, it should be appropriately funded. Based on the number of kids each individual school has. And I would argue that the lion's share of the funding should go to actual education - things like supplies (lab equipment, up-to-date textbooks, computers, etc.), ensuring teachers are well compensated based on merit, ensure we have the best teachers in the world - and less on crap like sports uniforms, and worthless bureaucrats.

Especially bureaucrats. At least sports and extra curricular activities have some value.

The fact that people who never deal with students are the ones with bigger salaries and company cars is a HUMONGOUS red flag that tells me that something has gone horribly wrong with The Plan.

Oh good, I don't have time to argue this morning. :yay:

I agree - it's not the money schools receive, but how it's spent that's the problem.
 
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