REL's statue

This_person

Well-Known Member
Lee.jpg
Robert E Lee was married to George Washington's granddaughter.

He worked with Grant during the Mexican-American war and became a decorated war hero defending this country.

He believed slavery was a great evil and his wife broke the law by teaching slaves to read and write.

After the civil war he worked with Andrew Johnson's program of reconstruction. He became very popular with the northern states and the Barracks at West Point were named in his honor in 1962.

He was a great man who served this country his entire life in some form or other.

His memorial is now being called a blight. No American military veteran should be treated as such. People keep yelling, "You can't change history." Sadly you can. This is no better than book burnings. ISIS tried rewriting history by destroying historical artifacts. Is that really who we want to emulate?

As they tear down this "blight" keep these few historical facts in your mind. No military veteran and highly decorated war hero should ever be treated as such. This is not Iraq and that is not a statue of Saddam.

IN ADDITION:: Lee was also very torn about the prospect of the South leaving the Union. His wife's grandfather George Washington was a huge influence on him. He believed that ultimately, states rights trumped the federal government and chose to lead the Southern army. His estate, Arlington, near Washington, DC, was his home and while away fighting the war, the federal government demanded that Lee himself pay his taxes in person. He sent his wife but the money was not accepted from a woman. When he could not pay the taxes, the government began burying dead Union soldiers on his land. The government is still burying people there today. It is now called Arlington National Cemetery. DO THEY WANT TO TEAR THAT UP ALSO??



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PJay

Well-Known Member
View attachment 119634
Robert E Lee was married to George Washington's granddaughter.

He worked with Grant during the Mexican-American war and became a decorated war hero defending this country.

He believed slavery was a great evil and his wife broke the law by teaching slaves to read and write.

After the civil war he worked with Andrew Johnson's program of reconstruction. He became very popular with the northern states and the Barracks at West Point were named in his honor in 1962.

He was a great man who served this country his entire life in some form or other.

His memorial is now being called a blight. No American military veteran should be treated as such. People keep yelling, "You can't change history." Sadly you can. This is no better than book burnings. ISIS tried rewriting history by destroying historical artifacts. Is that really who we want to emulate?

As they tear down this "blight" keep these few historical facts in your mind. No military veteran and highly decorated war hero should ever be treated as such. This is not Iraq and that is not a statue of Saddam.

IN ADDITION:: Lee was also very torn about the prospect of the South leaving the Union. His wife's grandfather George Washington was a huge influence on him. He believed that ultimately, states rights trumped the federal government and chose to lead the Southern army. His estate, Arlington, near Washington, DC, was his home and while away fighting the war, the federal government demanded that Lee himself pay his taxes in person. He sent his wife but the money was not accepted from a woman. When he could not pay the taxes, the government began burying dead Union soldiers on his land. The government is still burying people there today. It is now called Arlington National Cemetery. DO THEY WANT TO TEAR THAT UP ALSO??



View attachment 119635

Yes, they will want to tear that up also.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
He believed that ultimately, states rights trumped the federal government and chose to lead the Southern army

Probably a majority of people believed that back then, and strongly so. The sovereign states had only 75 five years earlier formed a loose Federal union, some of them only grudgingly and with strong (and strongly stated) reservations during the process. And with a few agreed exceptions spelled out in the Constitution, that sovereignty had remained intact and little changed over those 75 years. Lincoln was on shaky ground when he resorted to military force to stop what many believed was a legal attempt by various states to secede.

And this is why so many former West Point classmates and previously fellow soldiers - many very close friends even - came to be on opposite sides in the conflict. Purely because of state allegiances.

Allegiance to ones own state first is also part of why the southern states that did secede didn't all rush to join the Confederacy..some were in fact very reluctant to leave one union only to join up with another.
 
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vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Yeah, do you all think there's rational thought behind this crap? Really? Even after everything you've seen and heard? Have you ever actually tried to reason with these nutters? Ever try to show them proof that their accusations are false?

They say everything is edited and photoshopped (except for that clearly fake "photo" of Donald Trump embracing the KKK people with torches in the background - that's real, man). If you tell them CNN or Politico reported it, they don't believe you. If you show them, they say it's fake or that CNN and Politico are right-wing propaganda outlets.

Good grief, don't you all read Sappy's posts? Or Midnightriders? And still you want to try and reason with these crazy zealots?
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Yeah, do you all think there's rational thought behind this crap? Really? Even after everything you've seen and heard? Have you ever actually tried to reason with these nutters? Ever try to show them proof that their accusations are false?

They say everything is edited and photoshopped (except for that clearly fake "photo" of Donald Trump embracing the KKK people with torches in the background - that's real, man). If you tell them CNN or Politico reported it, they don't believe you. If you show them, they say it's fake or that CNN and Politico are right-wing propaganda outlets.

Good grief, don't you all read Sappy's posts? Or Midnightriders? And still you want to try and reason with these crazy zealots?

As you know from our previous conversations on this, I agree that the side of the losers should not be glorified by the side of the winners. You don't spike the football, but you don't glorify bad plays, either - both are really bad sportsmanship.

It is nice to read the whole story, though. Clearly I did not write the OP, but I understand it to be accurate. I don't know why more people are not interested in accurate instead of biased. Maybe I'm getting too old :lol:
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
These people will not be swayed by facts. They have an agenda, and that agenda is far deeper than a few statues.

They mean to bring down the President.
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
As you know from our previous conversations on this, I agree that the side of the losers should not be glorified by the side of the winners. You don't spike the football, but you don't glorify bad plays, either - both are really bad sportsmanship.

It is nice to read the whole story, though. Clearly I did not write the OP, but I understand it to be accurate. I don't know why more people are not interested in accurate instead of biased. Maybe I'm getting too old :lol:

So should we just stop work on this or do we have to blow it off the side of the mountain?

image.jpg
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
So should we just stop work on this or do we have to blow it off the side of the mountain?

View attachment 119643

In my humble opinion, if it is privately funded on private land and not a public safety risk, keep going.

However, we need to stop offering superior citizen status to groups of people. Get rid of reservations and quotas and anything else that artificially elevates one citizen over another
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
In my humble opinion, if it is privately funded on private land and not a public safety risk, keep going.

However, we need to stop offering superior citizen status to groups of people. Get rid of reservations and quotas and anything else that artificially elevates one citizen over another

Do you really believe that placing these statues on Private Land would stop these people?
They are on a roll. It's working.
The cowardly leaders who tell the police to back down have shown them it works.

When they get off the statues what will be next. Burning Church's?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
So should we just stop work on this or do we have to blow it off the side of the mountain?

The difference with Crazy Horse is that they weren't the aggressors, they were invaded. I think his monument should be federally funded so they'll finally finish the damn thing.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
The difference with Crazy Horse is that they weren't the aggressors, they were invaded. I think his monument should be federally funded so they'll finally finish the damn thing.

Not to worried about who the aggressor is. They're citizens, or not. Not a single person alive today was aggressed upon by a person alive today when it comes to the Indians.

We need to stop supporting people with other people's money
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
One of the better (I think) short summaries of the many factors leading up to the civil war. Including an accurate description of the whole process of secession and when it actually started...and some whys.

http://www.historynet.com/causes-of-the-civil-war

Reading that it sounds like the real cause of the war wasn't as much slavery and abolitionists as it was the media stoking the fears and passions of the people. Where have we seen that happen.

But that wasn’t bad enough for the Southern press, which whipped up the populace to such a pitch of fury that Lincoln became as reviled as John Brown himself.

To a lesser extent, the Northern press must accept its share of blame for antagonizing Southerners by damning and lampooning them as brutal lash-wielding torturers and heartless family separators.
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
The difference with Crazy Horse is that they weren't the aggressors, they were invaded. I think his monument should be federally funded so they'll finally finish the damn thing.

The abolitionists were just as much aggressors as the slavers were. John Brown's raid on Harper's ferry was two years before fort Sumpter.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
The abolitionists were just as much aggressors as the slavers were. John Brown's raid on Harper's ferry was two years before fort Sumpter.

There was a very load collective groan from other southern states when South Carolina pulled the triggers on Ft. Sumter. Nearly all the other states considered secession their legal right and had every intention of exiting peacefully. Sumter was exactly the match that Lincoln used to light the rest of the fire.

It's a pretty common theme or thread thoughout...that the most radical and militant of the southern states was South Carolina by far. When Sumter happened, many of the other southern states had still not even agreed to a new union; some were even against forming one.
 
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