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Thread: Get your Marijuana Card Here...

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    I think I can speak for the majority when I say that I'm pretty sure we do not want a bunch of mindless drug addicts running around with guns. That is not what our Founding Fathers had in mind when they crafted the Second Amendment. (And if you are silly and uneducated enough to come back with, "Well all those guys were all potheads!" I am ready to give you the schooling that your dope smoking teachers apparently neglected.)

    I have smoked pot numerous times and spent most of my high school years surrounded by pot smokers. For some "scientist" to insist that marijuana doesn't affect your judgment and spatial awareness is flat out bull#### and anyone who has ever gotten high will tell you this. It indeed induces paranoia in many users - that is a demonstrable truth. Which is neither here nor there; my main concern about a drugged up populace is....why make it easy on them to enslave you? You say you are a libertarian, and yet you willingly hold out your arms so politicians can chain you and do as they please. That makes absolutely no sense, and the main reason why I haven't joined the Libertarian Party. If they want to enslave me, they're going to have to work for it.
    Plenty of mindless drunks have guns. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, and I'm certainly not advocating for gun use while impaired.

    What scientist is doing that? Why are you making up things that were never presented. We both know you didn't click the links, you didn't read through th study, yet you blurt out your response as if you did. You got high in high school, great for you. What was that, 20-30 years ago? Are you denying that major strides have been made not only in marijuana cultivation but the study of marijuana and its effects? Just because your rational basis is supported by your outdated experience doesn't mean it carries more weight than scientists who actually study the substance.

    No one, again, no one at all is claiming it DOESN'T make people paranoid. No one is suggestiong marijuana is the end-all, be-all pain and discomfort curer. No one. So quit acting like it.

    I am a libertarian, and I don't know where you got this wild idea that I'm accepting what our politicians are doing. I've bitched about this state's medical marijuana program from the get-go. My gripes on any number of issues ranging from marijuana to healthcare are out there. This isn't the first discussion we've had on this topic and I just don't know how me advocating for the government to get out of this war on drugs equates to me acceptinfg politicians with open arms. It's just an asinine comment.

    You see, the issue here is that you're (falsely) equivocating the state's "legalization" and regulation of marijuana as them pushing it on us. My stance is that if we are a nation of so-called freedom and responsibility, why do we need the govt. to tell us what is good or bad? What we should or should not put in our own bodies? There's literally enslavement of people who make their own decisions and have to suffer the consequences of wrong ones. No one is forcing you or anyone else to use marijuana, and it's a shame that you feel that just because something is legal means people have to use it. If heroin became legal tomorrow, I wouldn't use it. Would you? No, because legalizing it is NOT "enslaving you".

    I simply don't know why it's so difficult for a forum of supposed adults to have a rational conversation without the need to make wild assumptions, fill posts with hyperbole, and overall act like a pedantic #######. I provide medical evidence of my claims and you come here to jump down my throat based on your high school experience decades ago and use that as justification as to why "scientists" are wrong.

    If anyone or anything is enslaving you, it's your own mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    I don't want to hear that stupid crap, either. Rape and murder will never go away, no matter how illegal we make it and how many people we throw in prison for doing it. So why not legalize that as well? Hell, we could eliminate crime in this country with a pen stroke - just abolish all laws. Poof! Crime-free nation!
    Difference being, of course, that rape and murder are one person affecting another (the whole, "your right to swing your fist ends at my nose" thing).

    If someone gets high and drives, the crime of DUI still remains. If someone is impaired, in general, and hurts/kill/affects someone else, the crime is what that impaired person did. Simply posessing something or simply using a substance shouldn't be a crime in itself.
    Crybaby Cripplecrow Hanging on a Monkey's Toe Club

  2. #12
    Proofs.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. -Frank Zappa

  3. #13
    Board Mommy vraiblonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn View Post
    Simply posessing something or simply using a substance shouldn't be a crime in itself.
    Possession is a misdemeanor - not only do most pot smokers not get caught with personal amounts, the few that do don't get punished. You act like the prisons are filled with people who just had a joint or were getting high in the privacy of their own home, and that is simply not true. The reason someone gets busted for pot possession is because they in fact were affecting someone else.

    In honesty, I don't really care about pot legalization; I care about the slippery slope and unintended consequences. You are correct when you say that smoking pot is no different than drinking a few beers, and our drug problem in this country has very little to do with pot smokers. HOWEVER:

    The argument for legalizing pot can be used to legalize heroin, or meth, or cocaine, or any other more intrusive drug. Is that really what we want?

    If we agree that alcohol abuse is a serious issue, why would we want to throw marijuana abuse in that mix as well?

    Does anyone really *need* to smoke pot? The active ingredient that "sufferers" insist they want is available in other forms, and you can get a prescription from your doctor. So really, let's stop with the camouflage and be honest for a change.

    Legalizing anything does indeed encourage use. That's a fact and anyone who disputes it is full of crap.

    We're on a national vendetta against cigarettes and tobacco use, yet....we want to encourage the smoking of pot. Really? There are numerous studies that show marijuana is physically way worse for you than tobacco. Second hand smoke? Ha. How about contact high?

    Not to mention, if we are equating pot smoking with beer drinking, drinking a beer doesn't get everyone around you drunk. So it would have to be regulated strictly, as in NO public consumption. Which means we're back where we started with pot smokers enjoying in their homes in private, and getting arrested if they're getting baked in public.



    There's no point in legalizing marijuana, and legalizing will not reduce crime by one single case.
    "Too much agreement kills a chat."
    ~Eldridge Cleaver

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    You are correct when you say that smoking pot is no different than drinking a few beers, and our drug problem in this country has very little to do with pot smokers.
    Disagree.

    I have over the course of my life consumed beer, or bourbon, on almost all occasions without becoming intoxicated or buzzed.

    I know of no one that was burning a joint that wasn't out to get baked.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
    Disagree.

    I have over the course of my life consumed beer, or bourbon, on almost all occasions without becoming intoxicated or buzzed.

    I know of no one that was burning a joint that wasn't out to get baked.
    Oh but using wacky weed does affect others, do some research on productivity and safety.

    Marijuana Use and Its Impact on Workplace Safety and Productivity
    https://ohsonline.com/articles/2016/...ductivity.aspx

    It has an impact on employers, particularly if the smoker is getting their weed for medicinal purposes. The employer can have a drug free workplace but would be required to let employees with at disability smoke weed on the job.
    Your signature can not be longer than 100 characters - BS

  6. #16
    Board Mommy vraiblonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BernieP View Post
    The employer can have a drug free workplace but would be required to let employees with at disability smoke weed on the job.
    And before you know it, a large number of your workers will "have a disability" because that's how that works. People like Chris can say, "Nuh uh!" but every human behavior pattern observed throughout history will support that outcome.

    If there were some honesty attached to legalizing marijuana, I'd be more inclined to listen. But when they go, "Oh, it's for medicinal purposes..." just like they said, "Oh, it's choice..." and "undocumented immigrants..." and "climate change..." and all the other spoonfuls of sugar they apply to unpalatable ideas to make them go down, I see it for the doublespeak it is and immediately get suspicious.
    "Too much agreement kills a chat."
    ~Eldridge Cleaver

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    Possession is a misdemeanor - not only do most pot smokers not get caught with personal amounts, the few that do don't get punished. You act like the prisons are filled with people who just had a joint or were getting high in the privacy of their own home, and that is simply not true. The reason someone gets busted for pot possession is because they in fact were affecting someone else.

    No, jails aren't "full" of people charged with possession but you also cannot argue the fact that marijuana/drug smell is used as a means for a number of things. Each and every week we get these "police blotter" articles and a lot of times what do we read? "Detected the odor of...."

    The fact is, marijuana, and drugs in general are used to justify police behavior we wouldn't tolerate for other substances that are legal.

    I disagree that someone simply posessing got arrested because they were affecting someone else. Someone can and will be arrested with over 10 grams of marijuana. An arbitrary number set forth by the state.

    Here's an article form this website a few months ago where someone was arrested for possession over 10 grams.
    http://somd.com/news/headlines/2017/22002.php


    In honesty, I don't really care about pot legalization; I care about the slippery slope and unintended consequences. You are correct when you say that smoking pot is no different than drinking a few beers, and our drug problem in this country has very little to do with pot smokers. HOWEVER:

    The argument for legalizing pot can be used to legalize heroin, or meth, or cocaine, or any other more intrusive drug. Is that really what we want?

    Personally, yes. Focus more on treatment and less on locking people up. In all honesty, would you, or anyone you know start smoking meth or shooting heroin if it became legal?

    Again, if we claim, as a society, to have personal responsibility, these sorts of things go along with it. It's not just making sure you pay your taxes, pay your bills, get a job, etc.


    If we agree that alcohol abuse is a serious issue, why would we want to throw marijuana abuse in that mix as well?

    "Abuse" being the key word here. You would agree that a small percentage of people who drink actually have an addiction issue, no? The vast majority of drinkers do so responsibly. As do the vast majority of marijuana smokers.

    Keep in mind, we're discussing medical marijuana. There's certianly arguments for the legitimacy of some people's ailments or even the physician making the recommendation, but if someone thinks they need marijuana to maintain an appetite while getting cancer treatments/chemo/etc. or using it to damper pain, those typically aren't the people that end up abusing it. The same can't really be said for opioid pain killers that kill tens of thousands per year.

    We know people abuse prescription painkiller, but understand the need for them. I don't understand why we can't do the same for other substances.


    Does anyone really *need* to smoke pot? The active ingredient that "sufferers" insist they want is available in other forms, and you can get a prescription from your doctor. So really, let's stop with the camouflage and be honest for a change.

    Ask those that feel they do. I personally do not enjoy the feeling of painkillers. My wife was in the hospital last week and when coming in with a pain of "4", the nurses immediately administered morphine. The morphine gave her a pounding headache the next day. While THC may be available in other forms (aka, Marinol, I assume?), some folks feel the need to use marijuana rather than synthetic pain killers or appetite drugs.

    I see it like those folks who eat all organic, gluten and GMO free food. Some folks feel they "need" that food to maintain a certain level of health. I don't agree with that approach, but I'm certainly not going to tell others what or how they should eat.


    Legalizing anything does indeed encourage use. That's a fact and anyone who disputes it is full of crap.

    Then why has usage remained virtually the same in Colorado after marijuana legalization? If anything, keeping it illegal encourages use.

    We're on a national vendetta against cigarettes and tobacco use, yet....we want to encourage the smoking of pot. Really? There are numerous studies that show marijuana is physically way worse for you than tobacco. Second hand smoke? Ha. How about contact high?

    I smoke cigarettes, so I understand.

    Whatever you;ve read that makes you believe in contact high is lying to you. Unless you're in a car, windows up, fish bowling with Snoop Dogg and Cheech and Chong, there's no such thing. So much of the THC is absorbed by the body that virtually no THC exists in exhaled smoke.

    A number of studies, including a 2015 study by Johns Hopkins says that:
    http://www.drugandalcoholdependence....160-X/fulltext


    Not to mention, if we are equating pot smoking with beer drinking, drinking a beer doesn't get everyone around you drunk. So it would have to be regulated strictly, as in NO public consumption. Which means we're back where we started with pot smokers enjoying in their homes in private, and getting arrested if they're getting baked in public.

    Besides the fact that you're not getting everyone around you high; that's not a fact, and proven false on numerous occasions, I see this as similar to cigarettes. As a smoker I try to be cognizant of who is around me. I'll walk far away, or aimply not smoke. Businesses and restaurants don't want customers upset because you or I are sucking down Marlboro Lights like mixed drinks on a cruise (not to mention state laws banning smoking), so they ban it.

    I hate this idea that the only real way to enforce things is to let govt. do it. i.e. make a law. It doesn't have to be that way, and even now with multiple states legalizing recreational marijuana, they are not allowed public consumption. That being said, head to Colorado and go atop Pike Peak and tell me you don't see anyone smoking. As with most things, if you're not a dick, and not obnoxious, it's usually not a problem.

    I don't want the bad apples in life to dictate how I should live mine, or yours.




    There's no point in legalizing marijuana, and legalizing will not reduce crime by one single case.
    Um, if it's a crime to possess marijuana (at least to some extent which varies by state), and if it no longer becomes a crime to do so, wouldn't that be instant reduction in crime? If, let's say, 10,000 people are arrested for simple possession each year, there's immediately 10,000 LESS people going through the criminal justice system. Less cases for police, less cases for judges, lawyers, jurors, jails, etc.

    The point of legalization isn't based solely on one thing, but let's be honest. You aren't changing your mind. No one who believes it's the devil's lettuce is going to have their mind changed by an anonymous forum poster.

    I just think that the government shouldn't be in the business of telling you what to put in your body. I think if we're really free, that means the freedom to responsibly use mind-altering substances. I think most people can, and do, use them responsibly and maintain a productive lifestyle, but that does not equate to being the wild west where stoned and drunk drivers can drive 100 mph up rt.4 without consequences.
    Crybaby Cripplecrow Hanging on a Monkey's Toe Club

  8. #18
    Board Mommy vraiblonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn View Post
    No, jails aren't "full" of people charged with possession but you also cannot argue the fact that marijuana/drug smell is used as a means for a number of things. Each and every week we get these "police blotter" articles and a lot of times what do we read? "Detected the odor of...."

    The fact is, marijuana, and drugs in general are used to justify police behavior we wouldn't tolerate for other substances that are legal.
    Uh huh. Why do you suppose it is that every person pulled over and searched because a cop "smelled marijuana" turns out to have guns and warrants and other more serious stuff going on? Some coincidence, eh? Or am I going to have to spell that out for you?


    Whatever you;ve read that makes you believe in contact high is lying to you.
    Now you're just being foolish. I have experienced contact high first hand in a Jamaican marketplace, among other places. If the smoke is all over the place, and you breathe it in, guess what happens?

    Why do you do this? Surely you have a better argument than insisting something that certainly is, isn't. You can cite all the pusher government statistics you want; I will go with what I know for fact first hand.

    Now are you going to tell me that, oh no, they make this newfangled pot that doesn't get anyone high when they inhale the smoke?
    "Too much agreement kills a chat."
    ~Eldridge Cleaver

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by BernieP View Post
    Oh but using wacky weed does affect others, do some research on productivity and safety.

    Marijuana Use and Its Impact on Workplace Safety and Productivity
    https://ohsonline.com/articles/2016/...ductivity.aspx

    It has an impact on employers, particularly if the smoker is getting their weed for medicinal purposes. The employer can have a drug free workplace but would be required to let employees with at disability smoke weed on the job.
    Nothing requires employers to do that and I think every employer should have a right to work contract. I think your job is between you and your employer and the govt. should not play middle man.

    As the article you linked says:
    So far, courts have ruled that employers may take action under their substance abuse policy if an employee tests positive for marijuana, even if the drug is being used for medical purposes away from the workplace under state law.
    There can certainly be an argument that if someone uses medical marijuana outside of work hours and doesn't do their job impaired, should they be fired for testing positive for a substance that stays in their system for days or weeks? Let alone one a doctor has prescribed them.

    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    And before you know it, a large number of your workers will "have a disability" because that's how that works. People like Chris can say, "Nuh uh!" but every human behavior pattern observed throughout history will support that outcome.

    If there were some honesty attached to legalizing marijuana, I'd be more inclined to listen. But when they go, "Oh, it's for medicinal purposes..." just like they said, "Oh, it's choice..." and "undocumented immigrants..." and "climate change..." and all the other spoonfuls of sugar they apply to unpalatable ideas to make them go down, I see it for the doublespeak it is and immediately get suspicious.
    You act like this country is made up of productive people and the instant marijuana smoke hits the air we'll all become mindless zombies. Newsflash, half the country smokes weed now. I for one believe that employers should have the right to drug test (which they do), but let's be honest, not every place involves construction, fabrication, etc. that are more prone to workplace accidents. Especially detrimental ones.

    If the feds would quit dicking around with scheduling drugs, maybe there wouldn't be a need to call it "medicinal". There are certainly people who need it. I watched a long time family friend pass from cancer in just 4 months and needed it. Unfortunately, the state of MD hadn't legalized medical marijuana at that point.

    That's not to say that there aren't shady doctors giving cards to Joe Blow and his chronic pinky pain, but if all marijuana advocates can achieve is medical, that's what they'll take.

    The only reason people are mentioning "medical" is because it's the topic of this thread, so it's probably not out of the realm of possibility that those you feel are duping you aren't being honest with legalization and only discussing medical is because that's all that available right now.
    Crybaby Cripplecrow Hanging on a Monkey's Toe Club

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post

    Now are you going to tell me that, oh no, they make this newfangled pot that doesn't get anyone high when they inhale the smoke?
    "Arkansas Gold?"

    Isn't that what Bill smoked?

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