Proposal to Widen the BW Parkway, I495, & I270

Rommey

Well-Known Member
link
Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan on Thursday proposed a $9 billion plan to add express toll lanes to the routes of three of Maryland’s most congested highways — the Interstate 495 Capital Beltway, the I-270 spur connecting Frederick to D.C., and the Baltimore-Washington Parkway between the two cities.

“This problem has been marring the quality of life of Maryland citizens for decades,” Hogan said at a news conference. “Today, we are finally going to do something about it.”

The highway expansions would add two express toll lanes each way to roughly 100 miles of roadways in Maryland’s densely populated central region. Existing lanes on each road would remain free to drivers.

The massive undertaking involves persuading the federal government to give the Baltimore-Washington Parkway, now controlled by the National Park Service, to the Maryland Transportation Authority.

The price tag for the Baltimore-Washington Parkway would be $1.4 billion. It’s dwarfed by the size of the combined $7.6 billion project to widen I-495 and I-270. Those new lanes would be built and maintained by private companies through public-private partnerships, or PPPs, in what the governor said would be the largest highway public-private partnerships in North America.


I think its past due since there are so few options for traveling those corridors and the alternates are just as jammed, and opponents are already lining up to complain about the feeder roads getting congested. Too late, those roads are already crowded and if the main road could handle more cars efficiently, then maybe that will ease the congestion on the side roads.

I think a public/private venture is a smart way to go, but my concern would be their toll fare structure. The ICC charges $0.22 per mile during peak period (which works out to $3.86 for the entire 18-mile trip. The BW Parkway is about 15 miles so if they kept the same rate it would cost you $3.22. The I270 corridor is 30 miles so expect to shell out $6.60 each way. For comparison the Atlantic City Expressway is about 45 miles long and its only $3.75 ($2.43 with an EZ Pass) and the New Jersey Turnpike is about 122 miles and its $13.85 ($10.40 with and EZ Pass). Meanwhile the I95/495 toll lanes on Virginia's Beltway charge a low of $0.20 per mile up to $1 per mile depending on volume.
 

Weems

New Member
Yeah, a $9B public-private partnership to create even more traffic. Sounds like a stellar idea.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
The I270 overload sure has gotten acute..there have been lobbying efforts under way for quite some time to do something about adding lanes to alleviate that problem.

Glad I very seldom have to use any of those roads. I just want to see a new 4-lane bridge replace the Harry Nice bridge and I'll be happy.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
wasn't the Mid County Parkway supposed to be a Beltway 'by-pass' for folks trying to get to 95 N :shrug:
 

Weems

New Member
The I270 overload sure has gotten acute..there have been lobbying efforts under way for quite some time to do something about adding lanes to alleviate that problem.

Adding traffic lanes doesn't alleviate traffic problems. It makes things worse because of induced demand.
 

Rommey

Well-Known Member
Yeah, a $9B public-private partnership to create even more traffic.
How so? Not spending significant money has created more traffic. The I270 corridor has been adding housing and retail at a pace that overwhelms I270. I'm guessing most that live up and down the corridor work in the DC/NoVA area. More people are moving farther out fro DC but still work there.

Maybe you haven't noticed or been driving around here very long, but very few of the main roads north of the Potomac have been expanded in the 35 years I've been living in the area. RT4 and RT5 have been two lanes in each direction the whole time and with the exception of adding overpasses to RT5 in Camp Springs and Clinton, its basically the same (until the Brandywine area gets done). I realize it expanded to three lanes south of the RT5/US301 split, but the added lights negate any progress. US301 between Brandywine and Bowie is getting worse by the day.

I270 has been the same two lanes north of Gaithersburg forever and traffic is just going to get worse whether you expand or not.

With so few alternative routes everyone is stuck using the few available. Most people don't like spending hours for a trip that should be measured in minutes.
 

Weems

New Member
How so? Not spending significant money has created more traffic. The I270 corridor has been adding housing and retail at a pace that overwhelms I270. I'm guessing most that live up and down the corridor work in the DC/NoVA area. More people are moving farther out fro DC but still work there.

Maybe you haven't noticed or been driving around here very long, but very few of the main roads north of the Potomac have been expanded in the 35 years I've been living in the area. RT4 and RT5 have been two lanes in each direction the whole time and with the exception of adding overpasses to RT5 in Camp Springs and Clinton, its basically the same (until the Brandywine area gets done). I realize it expanded to three lanes south of the RT5/US301 split, but the added lights negate any progress. US301 between Brandywine and Bowie is getting worse by the day.

I270 has been the same two lanes north of Gaithersburg forever and traffic is just going to get worse whether you expand or not.

With so few alternative routes everyone is stuck using the few available. Most people don't like spending hours for a trip that should be measured in minutes.

See post #6. "Induced demand".

Widen the roads. I don't really care as I don't really use them anyway. Just don't make the mistake of thinking it will actually solve any traffic problems.

Also note: People aren't "stuck in traffic"; they are the traffic.
 

Rommey

Well-Known Member
Adding traffic lanes doesn't alleviate traffic problems. It makes things worse because of induced demand.
What the hell is "induced demand"? Are you saying that if they build it they will come? Well guess what? They have already come. Adding more lanes allows the same number of cars to get through a given point quicker.

I get your basic point because invariably there could be out of control development along the corridor that will put us in the same situation 20-30 years from now. Let me ask you a question: why is there not a lot of development along the I97 corridor? Could it be written into law that limits that development? I'm sure the limit on development along the I270 corridor could be addressed as well.
 

Rommey

Well-Known Member
Also note: People aren't "stuck in traffic"; they are the traffic.
Please note: I didn't say "stuck in traffic"...I said "With so few alternative routes everyone is stuck using the few available."

It helps if you read what I said and not what you think I said.
 

Weems

New Member
What the hell is "induced demand"? Are you saying that if they build it they will come?

Yes. It's a well-studied and written about phenomenon.

Government intervention in development doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in.
 

Weems

New Member
Please note: I didn't say "stuck in traffic"...I said "With so few alternative routes everyone is stuck using the few available."

It helps if you read what I said and not what you think I said.

Sorry, didn't mean to attribute that bit directly to you.
 

Rommey

Well-Known Member
Widen the roads. I don't really care as I don't really use them anyway. Just don't make the mistake of thinking it will actually solve any traffic problems.
Really? As I stated before (and I'm guessing you weren't around then) but RT5 south of the beltway was an absolute nightmare back in the 80's There were lights at Allentown Rd and Woodyard Rd and it was only two lanes in each direction. They expanded to three lanes each direction and added overpasses and now there is no real issues until you get to the signal at Surratts Rd. So adding lanes and overpasses DID solve that issue. The Wilson Bridge is another example. They widened it and made the approaches a more gentle climb. The daily traffic report was traffic backed up to Van Dorn and St Barnabas. You rarely hear that anymore.
 

Rommey

Well-Known Member
Weems said:
Yes. It's a well-studied and written about phenomenon.
Got a link?
Government intervention in development doesn't sound like something I'd be interested in.
pssst the government already intervenes in all development...
And they are still there too in large part. The reductions come from fewer bridge span openings, not more lanes.
They weren't allowed to open the bridge during rush hours, so the backups were because of the lack of lanes to handle the volume. They still can't open the bridge during rush hour so the added lane capacity has reduced congestion and backups.
 

Weems

New Member
Really? As I stated before (and I'm guessing you weren't around then) but RT5 south of the beltway was an absolute nightmare back in the 80's There were lights at Allentown Rd and Woodyard Rd and it was only two lanes in each direction. They expanded to three lanes each direction and added overpasses and now there is no real issues until you get to the signal at Surratts Rd. So adding lanes and overpasses DID solve that issue. The Wilson Bridge is another example. They widened it and made the approaches a more gentle climb. The daily traffic report was traffic backed up to Van Dorn and St Barnabas. You rarely hear that anymore.

I’ve owned property in St. Mary’s County since 1981 and spent several years driving to K St. downtown.

I remember Rt. 5 well. removing traffic lights is what solved that problem. Traffic still exists there last time I made the trip.

Wilson Bridge traffic has been reduced by having fewer bridge openings not by adding lanes.
 
It's essentially no different than the widening of Rt 235, minus the tolls. While traffic is still bad during rush hour, it WAS and could be a whole lot worse without the added lanes.
 
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