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Thread: An honest world

  1. #21
    INGSOC GURPS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stgislander View Post
    I think the vast majority of folks believe that Citizens United was bad law.
    majority of progressives ?



    what is your opinion
    Weíre tempted to suggest a conspiracy here ó but itís just liberals agreeing yet again that conservatives have hidden, evil motives, because modern liberals simply canít conceive of any other reason to disagree with the liberal consensus.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by GURPS View Post
    majority of progressives ?



    what is your opinion
    I think it was bad all the way around.
    "Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever." - Shane Falco

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by stgislander View Post
    I think it was bad all the way around.
    Would you mind elaborating?
    There are only two possibilities; one is that we are alone in the universe, the other is that we are not.
    Both are terrifying.

  4. #24
    I guess it comes down to I don't buy off on the corporations or unions as an association of individuals argument. I believe if it can't vote, it can't donate (or make a video and buy advertising time).
    "Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever." - Shane Falco

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    Would you mind elaborating?
    It has given Pacs and corporations and unions a huge amount of leverage to fund issues they find important. It has incentivized the use of money to influence our politicians and make them beholden to the interests of corporations and unions over the interest of individual citizens and the less wealthy.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by stgislander View Post
    I guess it comes down to I don't buy off on the corporations or unions as an association of individuals argument. I believe if it can't vote, it can't donate (or make a video and buy advertising time).
    Would you be fine with companies and organizations offering their opinion through ads without specifically naming a candidate. As in, "We at Americans for Cool Stuff want to tell you about this thing happening. We do not endorse any candidate or party."
    There are only two possibilities; one is that we are alone in the universe, the other is that we are not.
    Both are terrifying.

  7. #27
    Really I don't care what Americans for Cool Stuff thinks. But... if Americans for Cool Stuff were buying ad time 24/7/365 instead of just weeks before an election, I'd be a LITTLE more inclined to accept it.

    But that's just me.
    "Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever." - Shane Falco

  8. #28
    INGSOC GURPS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stgislander View Post

    I believe if it can't vote, it can't donate (or make a video and buy advertising time).
    Yeah I agree .... if it can't vote, it can't donate

    ..... generally but if Monsanto wants to put out a campaign advocacy advertisement for Bernie Sanders for dog catcher
    I want a big bold disclaimer Monsanto Thinks Sanders Would be a great dog catcher for Prince Georges County.

    specifically however, CU was about a NON Profit Group making a Video about Hillary Clinton which the FEC said was akin to a Campaign Donation

    I do not agree and neither did the SC

    this is an interesting side note to the whole matter;

    During the 2004 presidential campaign, a conservative nonprofit 501(c)(4) organization named Citizens United filed a complaint before the Federal Election Commission (FEC) charging that advertisements for Michael Moore's film Fahrenheit 9/11, a docudrama critical of the Bush administration's response to the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, constituted political advertising and thus could not be aired within the 30 days before a primary election or 60 days before a general election. The FEC dismissed the complaint after finding no evidence that broadcast advertisements for the film and featuring a candidate within the proscribed time limits had actually been made.[9] The FEC later dismissed a second complaint which argued that the movie itself constituted illegal corporate spending advocating the election or defeat of a candidate, which was illegal under the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947 and the Federal Election Campaign Act Amendments of 1974. In dismissing that complaint, the FEC found that:

    The complainant alleged that the release and distribution of FAHRENHEIT 9/11 constituted an independent expenditure because the film expressly advocated the defeat of President Bush and that by being fully or partially responsible for the film's release, Michael Moore and other entities associated with the film made excessive and/or prohibited contributions to unidentified candidates. The Commission found no reason to believe the respondents violated the Act because the film, associated trailers and website represented bona fide commercial activity, not "contributions" or "expenditures" as defined by the Federal Election Campaign Act.[10]
    Weíre tempted to suggest a conspiracy here ó but itís just liberals agreeing yet again that conservatives have hidden, evil motives, because modern liberals simply canít conceive of any other reason to disagree with the liberal consensus.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by stgislander View Post
    Really I don't care what Americans for Cool Stuff thinks.
    See, to me, that's what makes it more than ok for anyone to use their group's money, or their company's money, or whatever, to buy any ad time they want. Even if it specifically does call for or against a specific candidate. Because you, as the voter, have the right to turn it off, or look up facts yourself, or care what they have to say. Their speech does not in any way force you to vote, or force you to believe what they're saying.

    So, in a world of individual responsibility, it doesn't matter if General Electric can vote or not - because their board can buy MSNBC and put out all kinds of BS, or they can just buy ad time on MSNBC and put out BS, and there's not really much of a difference because people can choose to, or not to, watch MSNBC.
    There are only two possibilities; one is that we are alone in the universe, the other is that we are not.
    Both are terrifying.

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