But YOU Cannot Have FireArms

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Liberal logic has always been that the law can't control human behavior; people are going to do what they're going to do whether it's legal or not. That sort of "they're going to do it anyway" reasoning is what the left uses to justify legalizing marijuana, providing welfare to able-bodied individuals who refuse to work, and decriminalizing the millions of intruders who slipped across the border into America illegally.

The truth is that the occult mantra "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" is the philosophical ideology committed progressives adhere to. Yet when it comes to the Second Amendment, leftist logic controverts what progressives espouse for most social policies.

Take, for instance, abortion. Liberals believe that abortion must never be banned because, if it is, women determined to kill their offspring will utilize wire hangers and seek out back-alley facilities. Despite the fact that partial-birth abortion is illegal in many states, in 2012, more than 6,000 determined women submitted their doomed children to late-term abortionists who operated slaughterhouses like the one overseen by convicted West Philadelphia murderer Kermit Gosnell.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/11/a_liberal_gun_paradox.html
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
Liberal logic has always been that the law can't control human behavior; people are going to do what they're going to do whether it's legal or not. That sort of "they're going to do it anyway" reasoning is what the left uses to justify legalizing marijuana, providing welfare to able-bodied individuals who refuse to work, and decriminalizing the millions of intruders who slipped across the border into America illegally.

The truth is that the occult mantra "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" is the philosophical ideology committed progressives adhere to. Yet when it comes to the Second Amendment, leftist logic controverts what progressives espouse for most social policies.

Take, for instance, abortion. Liberals believe that abortion must never be banned because, if it is, women determined to kill their offspring will utilize wire hangers and seek out back-alley facilities. Despite the fact that partial-birth abortion is illegal in many states, in 2012, more than 6,000 determined women submitted their doomed children to late-term abortionists who operated slaughterhouses like the one overseen by convicted West Philadelphia murderer Kermit Gosnell.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/11/a_liberal_gun_paradox.html

Thats not just lib logic, conservatives use exactly the same mantra. Moving on to your example about legalizing marijuana though legalizing it shouldn't be because "they'll do it anyways", it should be "because it was a bad idea".
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Thats not just lib logic, conservatives use exactly the same mantra. Moving on to your example about legalizing marijuana though legalizing it shouldn't be because "they'll do it anyways", it should be "because it was a bad idea".

Not sure I've heard a lot of conservatives say, "we should make that legal because people will do it anyway."

Why was it a bad idea?
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
Not sure I've heard a lot of conservatives say, "we should make that legal because people will do it anyway."

Why was it a bad idea?

So we should just tax abortion out of existence........just like making marijuana Legal
$3,000.00per abortion...$5,000,00 for twins
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
Not sure I've heard a lot of conservatives say, "we should make that legal because people will do it anyway."

Why was it a bad idea?

The same reason prohibition was a bad idea, it wasn't based on reality. Since Mexicans preferred marijuana over tobacco William Randolph Hearst concluded that having it vilified and eventually outlawed it would stop the migration of Mexican north. Before that time it was one the most useful cash crops in the country, behind only cotton and tobacco.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
The same reason prohibition was a bad idea, it wasn't based on reality. Since Mexicans preferred marijuana over tobacco William Randolph Hearst concluded that having it vilified and eventually outlawed it would stop the migration of Mexican north. Before that time it was one the most useful cash crops in the country, behind only cotton and tobacco.

And, cocaine was a staple of Coca-Cola. Not sure what that has to do with the 21st century. We've modified a cubic butt ton of laws since then, why not this one?
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
And, cocaine was a staple of Coca-Cola. Not sure what that has to do with the 21st century. We've modified a cubic butt ton of laws since then, why not this one?

Cocaine was an ingredient because it was a pain reliever for morphine addiction. I'm sure you think you've made some point, but it's evading me. It was a bad idea in the 19th century, piling on years isn't going to suddenly make it a good idea.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Cocaine was an ingredient because it was a pain reliever for morphine addiction. I'm sure you think you've made some point, but it's evading me. It was a bad idea in the 19th century, piling on years isn't going to suddenly make it a good idea.

But, what about it is a bad idea? You said said a publisher's nationalism caused people who were making gobs of money off a great product to be in favor of making it illegal, but you never said why it was a bad idea. What about it is unrealistic?
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
But, what about it is a bad idea? You said said a publisher's nationalism caused people who were making gobs of money off a great product to be in favor of making it illegal, but you never said why it was a bad idea. What about it is unrealistic?

Let me answer your question with a question, was the eighteenth amendment a good idea?
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
Let me answer your question with a question; what is your objection to it?
My objection to the eighteenth amendment? It was doomed to failure from the very beginning, the very people who passed it ignored it from the first day. It gave rise to organized crime that continues until today. It made criminals out of millions of people for what was in essence a social experiment.
 

littlelady

God bless the USA
My objection to the eighteenth amendment? It was doomed to failure from the very beginning, the very people who passed it ignored it from the first day. It gave rise to organized crime that continues until today. It made criminals out of millions of people for what was in essence a social experiment.

:like:
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
My objection to the eighteenth amendment? It was doomed to failure from the very beginning, the very people who passed it ignored it from the first day. It gave rise to organized crime that continues until today. It made criminals out of millions of people for what was in essence a social experiment.

Ok, I'm going to slightly reword your answer in a respectful way to try and capture what I understand, and see if it is what you mean; "People are going to partake of the substance anyway, so there's no reality in making a law to stop them." You also talked about the organized crime that came from it, but that's really a result of "people are going to do the thing anyway", right?
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
Ok, I'm going to slightly reword your answer in a respectful way to try and capture what I understand, and see if it is what you mean; "People are going to partake of the substance anyway, so there's no reality in making a law to stop them." You also talked about the organized crime that came from it, but that's really a result of "people are going to do the thing anyway", right?
Organized crime was a given. Any time you leave a vacuum in the carnal desire chain someone is going to step in to fill it. The more the legal system tries to stop it, the higher the profit margin. The higher the profit margin the more ruthless the supplier is going to get. And yes, people are going to do it anyways, for every outlawed vice there's been a workaround within the day.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Organized crime was a given. Any time you leave a vacuum in the carnal desire chain someone is going to step in to fill it. The more the legal system tries to stop it, the higher the profit margin. The higher the profit margin the more ruthless the supplier is going to get. And yes, people are going to do it anyways, for every outlawed vice there's been a workaround within the day.

So, people continue to murder, rape, speed, use heroin, and embezzle. Should we remove those laws against these things as well?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here. I'm just saying that, "because people will do it anyway" does not seem to be a viable reason for the law to be a bad idea. If that is the issue, have a good plan to fight people's actions. In the case of the 18th or drugs, the war should have been on the people (not the suppliers).

In my personal opinion, I believe the laws are bad simply because freedom supersedes federal government control. The problem that I have is that people should be able to decide for themselves. But, we know these things can cause great damage to others as well. I have no problem with a company saying that they will drug test you, and taking a position is tantamount to agreement to not do drugs. Because, other companies won't do that. I have argued these laws are acceptable in the past, but I am leaning far more towards these laws not being appropriate.

I have a huge problem with state laws that are counter to the federal laws. That flies in teh face of us being a nation of laws vice a nation of men. But, the issue is to fix the federal laws, not just ignore them.
 
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