If Michael Flynn's 'crime' is all Robert Mueller has, it is time to move on

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
On Friday, President Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators about a perfectly legal conversation he had during the presidential transition with then-Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak.

Flynn should not have lied, and why he chose to remains a mystery, but the substance of the single-count indictment against Flynn shows that special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation has strayed far from its original purpose.

We have come down quite a way from the hyperventilation about Russia “hacking the election” a year ago. What happened to Democratic Sen. Mark Warner’s claim, later promoted by Hillary Clinton, that there were 1,000 Russian agents planting anti-Hillary fake news stories in key swing states? Or that Russians had delivered Wisconsin to Trump? All the conspiracy theorists have so far are a few Facebook ads that can’t credibly be shown to have changed even one vote.

Flynn was fully in his rights making the call to Kislyak. Despite the best efforts of the anti-Trumpers, it is still not illegal to talk to Russians. Even Democratic former CIA director and Defense secretary Leon Panetta said it was a “stretch” to say these contacts broke the law.


If Michael Flynn's 'crime' is all Robert Mueller has, it is time to move on



There was ample precedent for the president-elect to put out feelers to foreign leaders.

  • A memo from the Podesta files released by WikiLeaks shows that the Obama team had planned for the “president-elect and senior officials (to) begin confidential policy consultations with key actors in U.S. and abroad” between Thanksgiving and Inauguration Day.
  • Obama also openly used emissaries and go-betweens to meet with foreign leaders during his transition.
  • And for overwrought members of “the resistance” who think the unenforceable Logan Act is suddenly in play, recall that in 2008 then-candidate Obama arranged substantive foreign policy discussions with numerous foreign dignitaries and leaders during an overseas campaign trip before the election.
 
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Starman

New Member
There'll be no moving on at least until Flynn testifies under oath and holds up his end of the plea deal. Exactly about what he will testify, we don't yet know, but that's generally the way plea bargains work.
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
There'll be no moving on at least until Flynn testifies under oath and holds up his end of the plea deal. Exactly about what he will testify, we don't yet know, but that's generally the way plea bargains work.

What plea deal.......please inform me?????

Keep wishing
 

Bird Dog

Bird Dog
PREMO Member
Here you go, pal. The parts you'll want to read slowly (or have someone read to you) are on pages 5 and 6.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1015121/download

Ok I read it, but what is he giving up other than he has to cooperate “if” he knows anything and has to become an informant “if” anyone talks to him and has to wear a wire “if” Mueller wants him to.....and who’s going to talk to knowing all of this.
Other than turning over all his financial information , which I’m sure Mueller already has, I think Flyn can sleep well.
 

Starman

New Member
Ok I read it, but what is giving up other than he has to cooperate “if” he knows anything and has to become an informant “if” anyone talks to him and ha to wear a wire “if”Mueller wants him to.....and who’s going to talk to knowing all of this.
Other than turning over all his financial information , which I’m sure Mueller already has, I think Flyn can sleep well.

It doesn't matter what he's "giving up", if anything. If there is something, then we shall find out at the appropriate time. You were incredulous that there was a plea bargain, and I showed you there was.

We certainly understand that being given orders to make those phone calls is not illegal. In other words, Flynn lied to the FBI about something that wasn't a crime. This is not in dispute.

What we now know, however, is that Trump knew that Flynn was lying to the FBI before he asked Comey to stop investigating, as evidenced by Saturday' tweet:

Trump's Tweet said:
I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!

There is now a path to obstruction under 18 U.S. Code § 1503 if the manner in which Trump requested Comey to stop investigating can be legally demonstrated to have been done "corruptly" or "by threatening letter or communication".

I don't think this is used all that often, but it's certainly an important piece of evidence moving forward.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
There is now a path to obstruction under 18 U.S. Code § 1503



as I recall the discussion at the time, if this were true;

[and its not the Chief Ex. cannot obstruct asking / suggesting / ordering the FBI to halt an investigation]

.... Comey should be in the Dock for not filing charges as required by law, when he became of attempts to 'obstruct and investigation'
 
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