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Thread: Why is this a case about gay rights and not Religious right........

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapidus View Post
    Yes but where you and the baker are both wrong is comparing a belief such as believing in the Bible to an inherent trait such as being gay, black, handicapped , white.

    You can not penalize someone for the way they were born or on some people’s belief system the way god made them. What you can do is penalize people for believing a book tells them it is ok to be a bigot.
    I don't think anyone is comparing believing in a higher power to being gay.

    Not everyone who dislikes a gay person, or a black person, or a developmently disabled person, or anyone who isn't like them bases that dislike on their religious affiliation or book. Some people are just #######s. Regardless, do you agree we live in a country that is "free"? Where we are free to associate with whom we want (albeit gay, straight, white, or black)? Where we are free to shop and spend money where we want? Where we are free to allow, or not allow people into our homes or workplace?

    As business owners in a free county, why shouldn't they be allowed to discriminate? Is it right? No way, but is it their right? Absolutely. Just as it's the right of a patron to NOT shop in a place where they disagree with the owner.

    Why in god's name (pardon the pun) should our government be in charge of forcing businesses to sell to someone they don't want to? If the shoe was on the other foot, how would you feel? As in, if a gay couple were forced to buy a cake from someone they didn't want to buy from, what's the difference? The government is still forcing a transaction between two consenting adults.
    Crybaby Cripplecrow Hanging on a Monkey's Toe Club

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapidus View Post
    What you can do is penalize people for believing a book tells them it is ok to be a bigot.
    It IS ok to be a bigot. It is socially unacceptable, but it is perfectly ok to believe things about other people and hold prejudicial opinions.
    Penalizing people for what they believe is EXACTLY what the Bill of Rights was set up to protect us from.
    In "1984" Orwell quipped that "nothing was your own except for a few cubic centimeters inside your skull".
    Of course, by the end - even THAT wasn't true. But believing something in your head? That's your right.

    Hating people because - make your list - may not be socially acceptable. But it is not against any law. I am free to hate my neighbor because I don't like the way he dresses.
    And with only a few constraints - I am free to say so. Maybe it would be nicer if people didn't. But it's not against the law.

    And I don't get your position. For one, it IS infringing on religious belief to compel someone to go against it.
    The baker wasn't proactive in his belief - he didn't go to the home of the two patrons.
    He didn't contact other bakeries to stop them. He wasn't even against selling them anything in the store. His "crime" was, he said no.

    Somebody somewhere is going to make a point by asking a Muslim baker to make something that insults Islam - and they will refuse.
    And I will support that.
    “Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.".Daniel Webster

  3. #33
    INGSOC GURPS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn View Post
    As business owners in a free county, why shouldn't they be allowed to discriminate? Is it right? No way, but is it their right? Absolutely. Just as it's the right of a patron to NOT shop in a place where they disagree with the owner.

    Why in god's name (pardon the pun) should our government be in charge of forcing businesses to sell to someone they don't want to? If the shoe was on the other foot, how would you feel? As in, if a gay couple were forced to buy a cake from someone they didn't want to buy from, what's the difference? The government is still forcing a transaction between two consenting adults.


    Well Said Chris ....
    to answer you, because its 'OK' to attack Christian's [especially the White Variety]


    it is all about CONTROL - you and I are too selfish or stupid to make the 'correct' decision as conceived by progressives
    We’re tempted to suggest a conspiracy here — but it’s just liberals agreeing yet again that conservatives have hidden, evil motives, because modern liberals simply can’t conceive of any other reason to disagree with the liberal consensus.

  4. #34
    INGSOC GURPS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamSpade View Post
    And I don't get your position. For one, it IS infringing on religious belief to compel someone to go against it.

    Sam you have seen the dismissive handwav'em ....
    ... it is a Fairy Tale Book, so The Book and its adherents have no rights in the Progressive Public Spaces
    Unless they are demanding more TAX Money for progressive programs to do [whatever] because ya know - taking care of others [through government] is the Christian Thing To Do


    The baker wasn't proactive in his belief - he didn't go to the home of the two patrons.
    the baker has repeatedly said he would sell them ANY Other Cake - just not a Wedding Cake


    Somebody somewhere is going to make a point by asking a Muslim baker to make something that insults Islam - and they will refuse.
    Crowder did sort'a ... Steven Crowder: Gay Wedding Cakes At Muslim Bakeries?
    Last edited by GURPS; 12-08-2017 at 07:44 AM.
    We’re tempted to suggest a conspiracy here — but it’s just liberals agreeing yet again that conservatives have hidden, evil motives, because modern liberals simply can’t conceive of any other reason to disagree with the liberal consensus.

  5. #35
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    But Kennedy had earlier hinted that the free speech issue wasn’t his concern, when he asked a quick question on that claim, with this prefatory comment: “[J]ust one more thing, and then we’ll leave this part alone, at least as far as I’m concerned” (emphasis added).

    What did concern Kennedy was evidence that the Colorado Commission on Civil Rights held an anti-religion animus. Here, the swing justice cited one commissioner’s comment that “freedom of religion used to justify discrimination is a despicable piece of rhetoric.” Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Neil Gorsuch added their voices to this criticism, with Gorsuch casting comments from a second commissioner as anti-religion.

    At this point, Justice Samuel Alito interjected his own similar concerns:

    One thing that’s disturbing about the record here, in addition to the statement made, the statement that Justice Kennedy read, which was not disavowed at the time by any other member of the Commission, is what appears to be a practice of discriminatory treatment based on viewpoint. The — the Commission had before it the example of three complaints filed by an individual whose creed includes the traditional Judeo-Christian opposition to same-sex marriage, and he requested cakes that expressed that point of view, and those — there were bakers who said no, we won’t do that because itis offensive. And the Commission said: That’s okay. It’s okay for a baker who supports same-sex marriage to refuse to create a cake with a message that is opposed to same-sex marriage. But when the tables are turned, and you have the baker who opposes same-sex marriage, that baker may be compelled to create a cake that expresses approval of same-sex marriage.


    http://thefederalist.com/2017/12/08/...erty-question/
    We’re tempted to suggest a conspiracy here — but it’s just liberals agreeing yet again that conservatives have hidden, evil motives, because modern liberals simply can’t conceive of any other reason to disagree with the liberal consensus.

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