I'll Call It - Franken Will NOT Leave the Senate

[GURPS]

Why? Because Democrats aren’t interested in wiping out sexual abuse. They were interested in the political hay to be made by pretending to care about doing so. With Moore out, that possibility is minimized. Now, Democrats could attempt to target President Trump over allegations of sexual abuse, but that strategy has little credibility after Bill Clinton, and it has little capacity to motivate after Trump was elected despite the presence of sexual harassment and abuse allegations. Democrats know that’s going nowhere, so why bother using it as an attack line against Trump?

That’s particularly true given the fine line Democrats now have to walk between opposing Trump and appeasing their base with a counterproductive impeachment move against him. If Democrats continue with the line that alleged sexual abusers must go, they’ll be duty-bound to impeach him come 2018 if they take the House, and top Democrats know that such a strategy will backfire politically. So they’re preemptively walking back their call for sexual abusers and harassers to step down.

All of which proves that there was no moral high ground here, just political high ground. And now some top Democrats think that the political high ground lies again in ignoring moral concerns in favor of power.



SO MUCH FOR THE MORAL HIGH GROUND: Top Democrats Change Their Minds On Franken, Want Him Not To Resign

 

[Hijinx]

Why? Because Democrats aren’t interested in wiping out sexual abuse. They were interested in the political hay to be made by pretending to care about doing so. With Moore out, that possibility is minimized. Now, Democrats could attempt to target President Trump over allegations of sexual abuse, but that strategy has little credibility after Bill Clinton, and it has little capacity to motivate after Trump was elected despite the presence of sexual harassment and abuse allegations. Democrats know that’s going nowhere, so why bother using it as an attack line against Trump?

That’s particularly true given the fine line Democrats now have to walk between opposing Trump and appeasing their base with a counterproductive impeachment move against him. If Democrats continue with the line that alleged sexual abusers must go, they’ll be duty-bound to impeach him come 2018 if they take the House, and top Democrats know that such a strategy will backfire politically. So they’re preemptively walking back their call for sexual abusers and harassers to step down.

All of which proves that there was no moral high ground here, just political high ground. And now some top Democrats think that the political high ground lies again in ignoring moral concerns in favor of power.



SO MUCH FOR THE MORAL HIGH GROUND: Top Democrats Change Their Minds On Franken, Want Him Not To Resign

Franken isn't going anywhere. he is just laying low until the dust settles.

 

[vraiblonde]

I actually agree that these guys are getting ousted and quitting prematurely. Tavis Smiley, who I rarely agree with but like him anyway, made a great case on Tucker last night (which I already agreed with so it was just preaching to the choir). Pretty much anything can be called "sexual harassment" these days, even the most petty benign comment. Not to mention we're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in this country, and not supposed to be tarred and feathered over mere accusations. What is this, freaking 17th century Salem?

When it was Bill Cosby - being publicly excoriated and losing his income....over accusations. Not proven guilty, but just because some woman *said* he did something.

That's some chilling ####.

 

[Hijinx]

I actually agree that these guys are getting ousted and quitting prematurely. Tavis Smiley, who I rarely agree with but like him anyway, made a great case on Tucker last night (which I already agreed with so it was just preaching to the choir). Pretty much anything can be called "sexual harassment" these days, even the most petty benign comment. Not to mention we're supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in this country, and not supposed to be tarred and feathered over mere accusations. What is this, freaking 17th century Salem?

When it was Bill Cosby - being publicly excoriated and losing his income....over accusations. Not proven guilty, but just because some woman *said* he did something.

That's some chilling ####.

Personally I believe Cosby is guilty as hell.
Losing his income?? Pretty sure he has enough socked away to live like a King for the rest of his life.
And it wasn't only one woman, and I wonder how he is keeping himself out of court.
Lawyers are expensive ,but his got him a mistrial, not an innocent verdict.
He is due in court again next June. ( I have no idea why they are waiting a year,but again an expensive lawyer.)

 

[vraiblonde]

Personally I believe Cosby is guilty as hell.

Believing does not make one guilty. Typically some proof is required when someone goes to criminal trial, not just "feelings" and "beliefs".

Losing his income?? Pretty sure he has enough socked away to live like a King for the rest of his life.

So what? Do you think he deserves to lose his livelihood, not to mention his reputation, based on allegations only and no proof of guilt? Stalin would have loved your ass.

And it wasn't only one woman, and I wonder how he is keeping himself out of court.

He's not. He just had a trial, that ended in a mistrial, with one juror citing conflicting statements from the plaintiff and lack of evidence. Note that he had like 8 million women "come forward" (wonder if they got paid to make their accusations like Trump's accusers did?); one would think there would be as many court dates, wouldn't one? I mean, if these accusations have any merit, that is. As it stands, Gloria Allred trotted these babes out, got her face on the TV, then...poof! All gone!

 

[GURPS]

They wanted to accuse everyone else of being misogynists and waging a “war on women.” For some reason I’ve never been able to figure out, they got the vapors over Mitt Romney using the phrase “binders full of women.” Yet during all that time they were treating actual, individual women like dirt—and now all of that is out in the open.

If you’ve ever wondered where the left gets this idea that America is some kind of hellscape of misogyny and sexual predation on the part of wealthy and privileged men—well, now you know. They were describing the culture of some of their own institutions.

No, such stories are not limited to any one ideology. But each ideology has certain institutional and ideological blinders that helps it happen. The last two examples are particularly instructive. Taibbi and Kriss got away with their behavior for as long as they did because they had a reputation of fighting viciously for the cause, particularly when it required someone who was willing to rejecting normal standards of respectability and civility. What made them so many fans was precisely their viciousness, their willingness to berate and insult. Because surely their political enemies are such horribly evil people that they don’t deserve the protection of civilized norms. Kriss was even part of a movement called the Dirtbag Left: “a term coined…to refer to a style of left-wing politics that eschews civility-for-its-own-sake in favor of subversive, populist vulgarity.”

In other words, these writers were lionized and promoted precisely because of the characteristics that marked them out as predators. It’s hardly a new phenomenon and has even been immortalized on film. These guys are all the hippie boyfriend in Forrest Gump, who can’t help smacking around his girlfriend because “it’s just this war, and that lying SOB Johnson.”​

It has been particularly gratifying to see a scumbag like Matt Taibbi get what’s coming to him.

The Left is now trying to cast this specifically as a problem with men and with masculinity. Partly, this is a frantic attempt to retain some of their lost moral high ground by claiming it on behalf of feminism. But as I observed, there’s something conspicuously off with that argument, particularly when you look at one favorite behavior among the men accused of harassment and assault.

Sexual assault, the act of a man imposing himself on an unwilling woman, is always a confession of some kind of inadequacy. The attacker implicitly assumes that no woman would be sexually interested in him if she had any choice in the matter….

That’s true of all forms of sexual assault. But how much more so for these men who force unwilling women to watch them gratify themselves? It says: ‘I am so worthless I have to physically impose myself on a woman just to masturbate.’

Don’t just take my word on this. The Los Angeles Times interviewed a gaggle of psychiatrists about this compulsion, and the phrases they used to describe it include: ‘sexual inadequacy’ and ‘regret, shame, and self-disgust.’ Not exactly he-man stuff. To be sure, the perpetrator does the deed partly to make himself feel powerful through his ability to humiliate his victim. But this in itself is a confession. The compulsion to commit extreme, illegal, and potentially career-ending acts just to gain a fleeting sense of power is a confession of how worthless and powerless he normally feels. Heck, Louis C.K. has made a whole career out of joking about his neuroses and sense of inadequacy. Maybe we should have taken him more seriously about that.​

http://thefederalist.com/2017/12/18/weve-learned-great-sexual-harassment-awakening-2017/

 

[vraiblonde]

For some reason I’ve never been able to figure out, they got the vapors over Mitt Romney using the phrase “binders full of women.”

I had several progs explain it to me, and I still didn't understand why the outrage. I don't think they really knew, tbh.

 

[Hijinx]

Believing does not make one guilty. Typically some proof is required when someone goes to criminal trial, not just "feelings" and "beliefs".



So what? Do you think he deserves to lose his livelihood, not to mention his reputation, based on allegations only and no proof of guilt? Stalin would have loved your ass.



He's not. He just had a trial, that ended in a mistrial, with one juror citing conflicting statements from the plaintiff and lack of evidence. Note that he had like 8 million women "come forward" (wonder if they got paid to make their accusations like Trump's accusers did?); one would think there would be as many court dates, wouldn't one? I mean, if these accusations have any merit, that is. As it stands, Gloria Allred trotted these babes out, got her face on the TV, then...poof! All gone!

He is due in court again in June 2018,unless he coughs up enough to buy that woman off we may find out.

 

[vraiblonde]

He is due in court again in June 2018,unless he coughs up enough to buy that woman off we may find out.

See, you've pronounced him guilty, even though a jury did not. That's not how our judicial system is supposed to work.

 

[Merlin99]

Personally I believe Cosby is guilty as hell.
Losing his income?? Pretty sure he has enough socked away to live like a King for the rest of his life.
And it wasn't only one woman, and I wonder how he is keeping himself out of court.
Lawyers are expensive ,but his got him a mistrial, not an innocent verdict.
He is due in court again next June. ( I have no idea why they are waiting a year,but again an expensive lawyer.)

Waiting out the clock, if he's not found guilty before he's found dead then it's a win.

 

[GURPS]

See, you've pronounced him guilty, even though a jury did not. That's not how our judicial system is supposed to work.

One can form an opinion based on what is reported
[assuming you can find reasonable new stories]


Cosby - guilty :shrug: who knows
Weinstein - Hmm sure seems like a molester after so many come forward
Lauer - yeah ditto

 

[Hijinx]

See, you've pronounced him guilty, even though a jury did not. That's not how our judicial system is supposed to work.

I haven't pronounced him guilty. It is my opinion that he is guilty, but my opinion doesn't count for sheit.
You believe he is not guilty. Why are you entitled to believe that and I am not entitled to an opinion.

You believe him not guilty because you don't want your bubble about a brilliant black man who was so talented and used clean humor and family situations in his comedy burst.
It's a great bubble and Cosby worked hard at creating it.
But it doesn't mean he didn't have a major fault.
He wouldn't be the first man that let his dick do the thinking for him. There are legions.

 

[littlelady]

Franken announced, today, that he will resign on Jan. 2nd.

 

[GURPS]

Franken announced, today, that he will resign on Jan. 2nd.

when the door hits him in the ass on the way out, I'll believe it

 

[vraiblonde]

One can form an opinion based on what is reported

You could if you wanted to believe the crap that gets "reported" these days. I usually form my opinions on gut feel - I get a sense whether or not it sounds reasonable and plausible that the accused did what's being alleged. Not that it means a hill of crap in a court of law - I thought there could be no doubt that Casey Anthony was at least involved in killing her little girl.

And sometimes the accused is a stellar liar who can sell their lies like a champ. I'm thinking of Bill Clinton wagging his finger and not only insisting that he did not have sexual relations with that woman, but giving off every impression that he was outraged by the very suggestion. Not all shrieking and melting down like less talented liars - Chuck and Nancy, I'm looking at you - but genuinely behaving like someone who has been falsely accused.

I frankly admit I don't want Bill Cosby to be guilty of these accusations. I like him, I've liked him for years, and I want him to be that comfort zone I've always perceived him as. But that aside, I'm always suspicious when one person makes an accusation, then 8 million others jump on the #metoo train. Those girls who were drugged and raped by Cosby, and then went on to work for him or even have a consensual relationship with him? Yeah. Liars.

 

[GURPS]

I frankly admit I don't want Bill Cosby to be guilty of these accusations.
I like him, I've liked him for years, and I want him to be that comfort zone I've always perceived him as.

an Icon from the 60/70's [I Spy / Fat Albert] .... then that successful sitcom in ? the 90s
[I didn't watch it so I cannot remember]

But that aside, I'm always suspicious when one person makes an accusation, then 8 million others jump on the #metoo train.
Those girls who were drugged and raped by Cosby, and then went on to work for him or even have a consensual relationship with him? Yeah. Liars.

as was pointed out ... women will sell themselves to get a shot at being famous [or just sell themselves]

but decades later - Cosby is a senile almost dead old man ... everyone should get their day in court and get Justice, but as some point - is this really necessary
why were you silent so long ..... oh right, you wanted to work, but now that time has passed, lets pile on


I always though the Cosby thing was and by the Time the OJ Trial was over I no longer cared, because the entire thing was mishandled from day one - Furman was dirty


its like finding some old Nazi who was an SS Camp Guard - dragging an 85 yr old man into court who escaped notice for 60 yrs just to point and say YOU Nazi

 

[vraiblonde]

its like finding some old Nazi who was an SS Camp Guard - dragging an 85 yr old man into court who escaped notice for 60 yrs just to point and say YOU Nazi

Did you ever read the book The Boys From Brazil? I think it was a movie, too.

 

[GURPS]

Did you ever read the book The Boys From Brazil? I think it was a movie, too.

Negative - but have seen the Odessa Files

 

[This_person]

Franken announced, today, that he will resign on Jan. 2nd.

That's today, right? Any announcements? Any office closings?

 

[vraiblonde]

I'm not a fan of Franken, but I think he jumped the gun on that. Mere accusations shouldn't put you out of a job, and even though he deserved what he got with that photo of him mock groping that woman, it wasn't all that and certainly not something he should have resigned over.

This sets a terrible precedence and I can't help but think something else is going on.