Immigrant children aren't entitled to government-paid lawyers

[GURPS]

"Mandating free court-appointed counsel could further strain an already overextended immigration system," wrote Judge Consuelo M. Callahan, who was appointed by President George W. Bush.

The decision was a blow to immigration rights activists, who have been trying to for years to get appointed counsel for youngsters facing deportation.

"It is a brutal decision," said Ahilan Arulanantham, legal director of the ACLU of Southern California. "It is brutal for him and also brutal for thousands of other children who have fled three of the most violent countries on Earth — Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador."

He said most of the minors facing deportation proceedings without lawyers came to the U.S. to escape violence in those three countries.

The ACLU and another organization tried unsuccessfully in the past to obtain lawyers for minors through a class-action lawsuit.



Immigrant children aren't entitled to government-paid lawyers in deportation hearings, court rules


Progressives ALWAYS want Gov. to pay for their actions ...
Surely the ACLU has enough MONEY to pay for legal representation
Surely there are enough bleeding heart Progressive Lawyers to work Pro Bono if they care so much

 

[Monello]

I find the concept of letting minor children venture alone to a foreign country mind boggling.

By the numbers there were 28,579 minor illegals in 2014, 15,616 in 2015 and 27,754 in a 6 month period for FY 2016. Almost 72,000 kids in a 30 month period. Most are from 3 countries, El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras.

 

[vraiblonde]

I find the concept of letting minor children venture alone to a foreign country mind boggling.

Me too. Who does that, gives their kid over to some stranger to be smuggled into a foreign country?

 

[Starman]

Sounds about right.

The 6th A begins with these words:

“In all criminal prosecutions...”

These deportation hearings aren’t criminal proceedings, but rather civil ones.

 

[RoseRed]

Me too. Who does that, gives their kid over to some stranger to be smuggled into a foreign country?

I think a majority of these "kids" were not, in fact, "kids", and they came in with their MS-13 counterparts. JMHO...

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I find the concept of letting minor children venture alone to a foreign country mind boggling.

By the numbers there were 28,579 minor illegals in 2014, 15,616 in 2015 and 27,754 in a 6 month period for FY 2016. Almost 72,000 kids in a 30 month period. Most are from 3 countries, El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras.

El Salvador - 108.64 murders per 100,000
Guatemala - 31.21 murders per 100,000
Honduras - 63.75 murders per 100,000

United States - 4.88 murders per 100,000

Not sure why it's mind boggling to want to get out of a country where everyone is dying around you.

Me too. Who does that, gives their kid over to some stranger to be smuggled into a foreign country?

Someone who believes they have a better chance at living in America than their own country?

The UN studied children coming from these countries and found that almost half of them had personal experiences with the violence in their respective countries.
http://www.refworld.org/docid/532180c24.html

 

[GURPS]

Not sure why it's mind boggling to want to get out of a country where everyone is dying around you.

:shrug:


so what ... fix your own country

The US is NOT under obligation to take in everyone 'who wants a better life'

 

[Chris0nllyn]

:shrug:


so what ... fix your own country

The US is NOT under obligation to take in everyone 'who wants a better life'

Never said it was. But it's not totally out of the realm of possibility to have at least some empathy for the situation these people are in in.

 

[MiddleGround]

Never said it was. But it's not totally out of the realm of possibility to have at least some empathy for the situation these people are in in.

Please define "empathy" as you used it above.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

Not sure why it's mind boggling to want to get out of a country where everyone is dying around you.

So what then? Dad sends his kids north while he fights the bad guys in his own country? Organizing with other like minded dads attempting to kill all the bad guys trying to restore order? Yeah, I don't see it happening. Having all those "kids" sent here was all done though back door diplomatic channels. I for one will not make someone else's problem my own, unless it becomes a threat to my self, my family, or country. The empathy I have is for, and reserved for, Americans such as the homeless, our veterans, old folk having financial difficulty in retirement through no fault of their own. Illegal trespassers to this country? Zero f*cks given.

 

[Monello]

Not sure why it's mind boggling to want to get out of a country where everyone is dying around you.

I think very few US parents would let their 12 year old take an unaccompanied journey of a few thousand miles.

What's also insane is allowing people who come from places with high incidents of violence and being surprised when they act violent once they arrive here. Guarantee that any neighborhood that has a majority of people from those 3 countries is not a pleasant place to visit.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Please define "empathy" as you used it above.

There's no special use of the word above. Just its basic definition.

Definition of empathy

1 : the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for this

2 : the imaginative projection of a subjective state into an object so that the object appears to be infused with it

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/empathy

If I may ...

So what then? Dad sends his kids north while he fights the bad guys in his own country? Organizing with other like minded dads attempting to kill all the bad guys trying to restore order? Yeah, I don't see it happening. Having all those "kids" sent here was all done though back door diplomatic channels. I for one will not make someone else's problem my own, unless it becomes a threat to my self, my family, or country. The empathy I have is for, and reserved for, Americans such as the homeless, our veterans, old folk having financial difficulty in retirement through no fault of their own. Illegal trespassers to this country? Zero f*cks given.

I think very few US parents would let their 12 year old take an unaccompanied journey of a few thousand miles.

What's also insane is allowing people who come from places with high incidents of violence and being surprised when they act violent once they arrive here. Guarantee that any neighborhood that has a majority of people from those 3 countries is not a pleasant place to visit.

There seems to be a common theme of this forum that simply offering a differing voice ("Devils Advocate") means one is squarely in the "other" camp.

I have no desire to discuss immigration with a group of people who clearly have no desire to discuss anything that makes them think outside of their box. It's quite easy to sit here and claim these people are idiots for doing what they do, or that they are pieces of #### for being illegals, or that no one in their right mind would do what they've done, but it takes a bit of empathy to understand why they do it. That's my point, and the entire question I responded to. I can't think of sending my kid to travel like that, but I also have the same luxury all of you do; not living in a 3rd world country that has a murder rate higher than the cancer death rate in the US.

One can have empathy for one's situation without equating that empathy to any sort of political position. I can have empathy for a single mom who made ####ty life choices but it doesn't mean I have to agree with those choices.

 

[Merlin99]

Never said it was. But it's not totally out of the realm of possibility to have at least some empathy for the situation these people are in in.

Right there illustrates the difference between Libs and Conservatives, libs would rather go with their feelings rather than laws. It's why we keep hearing "it's for the children".

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Right there illustrates the difference between Libs and Conservatives, libs would rather go with their feelings rather than laws. It's why we keep hearing "it's for the children".

Where did I advocate for any law change? Where did I say anything about them not being illegals or not subject to deportation?

Since reading and following along isn't exactly a strong suit 'round here:

I find the concept of letting minor children venture alone to a foreign country mind boggling.

By the numbers there were 28,579 minor illegals in 2014, 15,616 in 2015 and 27,754 in a 6 month period for FY 2016. Almost 72,000 kids in a 30 month period. Most are from 3 countries, El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras.

Me too. Who does that, gives their kid over to some stranger to be smuggled into a foreign country?

You see, these posts were what I was replying to.

 

[GURPS]

..... but it takes a bit of empathy to understand why they do it.

no it doesn't ...

They are cowards, unwilling to work hard and fix there own s h i t holes ...
they flee like little roaches, illegally entering another country, like a thief in the night, sucking up resources - JOBS, Welfare ... etc
we should treat the illegal invaders they way their HOST Country Treats illegals found within its borders ....


personally I execute a few hundred as and when found and watch the millions flee back across the border

 

[Merlin99]

Where did I advocate for any law change? Where did I say anything about them not being illegals or not subject to deportation?

Since reading and following along isn't exactly a strong suit 'round here:




You see, these posts were what I was replying to.

You're assuming I wrote about you, I specifically said "the difference between libs and conservatives". If you feel the need to identify with libs that's on you.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

no it doesn't ...

They are cowards, unwilling to work hard and fix there own s h i t holes ...
they flee like little roaches, illegally entering another country, like a thief in the night, sucking up resources - JOBS, Welfare ... etc
we should treat the illegal invaders they way their HOST Country Treats illegals found within its borders ....

personally I execute a few hundred as and when found and watch the millions flee back across the border

Yes, it does. I can have empathy for someone who steals food to feed their family due to (enter reason here) but also understand that it's against the law.

I'll assume you know what each one of these people has done to better their own country, but I'm willing to bet most people don't want to leave their home.

I know it sounds cool and tough to say you'd shoot people crossing the border, but you wouldn't. If you truly did want to shoot illegal immigrants, I'm sure they'd carve out a nice spot in North Korea for you.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

You're assuming I wrote about you, I specifically said "the difference between libs and conservatives". If you feel the need to identify with libs that's on you.

You specifically used my example. My quote. What else should I assume?

 

[Merlin99]

You specifically used my example. My quote. What else should I assume?

Should I just place a reply in the ether with nothing tying it to the thread? Your post gave me a place to make my point that tied it in logically.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Should I just place a reply in the ether with nothing tying it to the thread? Your post gave me a place to make my point that tied it in logically.

People do it all the time.