"Trump backs down"

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Oh please - it's only backing down if the whole situation was intentional and what he wanted to do for the duration.

I think he wanted to embarrass the crap out of the Democrats - and he showed them up by doing an executive order,
because they weren't willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Because why should they try to solve a problem they're getting so much mileage out of?
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
Oh please - it's only backing down if the whole situation was intentional and what he wanted to do for the duration.

I think he wanted to embarrass the crap out of the Democrats - and he showed them up by doing an executive order,
because they weren't willing to put their money where their mouth is.

Because why should they try to solve a problem they're getting so much mileage out of?
How did this embarrass democrats? The republicans have the house, senate, and White House. The Dems literally couldn’t do anything about this even if they wanted to. Additionally, it wasn’t their policy change that caused the increase in family separations.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
How did this embarrass democrats? The republicans have the house, senate, and White House. The Dems literally couldn’t do anything about this even if they wanted to. Additionally, it wasn’t their policy change that caused the increase in family separations.

Yes, the GOP has the House and White House, but as to the Senate, holding a simple majority is not having control of that body. You know, as well as I, that if you don't have 60 you don't have the Senate. So the Dems control absolutely anything happening in the Senate. Trump fixed their issue with the separations.

And this EO is not a policy change or falling back. UAs (unaccompanied illegal children) will still be held in those facilities, those with verifiable accompanying family members will be kept intact as a unit and moved to new facilities awaiting their hearings. The won't be released onto the public while waiting.
 

BOP

Well-Known Member
How did this embarrass democrats? The republicans have the house, senate, and White House. The Dems literally couldn’t do anything about this even if they wanted to. Additionally, it wasn’t their policy change that caused the increase in family separations.

You're embarrassing yourself and you're too dense to even realize it.
 

JustACitizen

New Member
The way it reads, this is little more than media manipulation, a sick form of cynical political theatre. There're no words which indicate any actual change, and the most likely result is more media intimidation by ICE. And the Trumpers will cheer!
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
The way it reads, this is little more than media manipulation, a sick form of cynical political theatre. There're no words which indicate any actual change, and the most likely result is more media intimidation by ICE. And the Trumpers will cheer!

Trump didn't back down ----------he won.
Trumps has said repeatedly that he didn't like separating families.
He wanted the Congress to do something about it, but they didn't have the courage.
He knows if he fixes this with an EO that Democrats will have a conniption.
So he waits until Chuck the Schmuck tells him to do it with his pen.
The Schmuck just told Trump to go around the Congress and make laws with his pen.
So Trump does it and the Senate cannot complain--they told him to.

He nailed their dumb asses again and he can now use his pen any time he wants,
 
When he signed this, he was backing down. He's a loser.

If he didn't sign, he's a child hater and a monster. He's a loser.

In the eyes of the left, there was no correct response.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
When he signed this, he was backing down. He's a loser.

If he didn't sign, he's a child hater and a monster. He's a loser.

In the eyes of the left, there was no correct response.

He just nailed their liberal asses to the wall.
And he waited and let them do it to themselves.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Additionally, it wasn’t their policy change that caused the increase in family separations.

This is just getting tedious. Trump made no policy change. He simply told the border patrol to enforce the laws in existence. Because they are doing it at a higher level than Obama, W, and Clinton doesn't change the fact that all of these presidents did the exact same thing, and you people on the left didn't care then. And they don't really care now.

There are tons of videos out there with Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Obama, Pelosi, Schumer... talking about how we need to get illegal immigration under control. They need to be deported. Our laws need to be enforced. My how forgetful people are. Once again, the left has manged to fabricate a crisis where none really exists. This problem has existed for decades and dredging it up now is nothing more than political drama.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
Yes, the GOP has the House and White House, but as to the Senate, holding a simple majority is not having control of that body. You know, as well as I, that if you don't have 60 you don't have the Senate. So the Dems control absolutely anything happening in the Senate. Trump fixed their issue with the separations.

And this EO is not a policy change or falling back. UAs (unaccompanied illegal children) will still be held in those facilities, those with verifiable accompanying family members will be kept intact as a unit and moved to new facilities awaiting their hearings. The won't be released onto the public while waiting.

How many bills got to the senate and were even threatening to be brought to a vote?


:killingme

So he stopped separating kids from their families, the thing there was outrage over because his DOJ had instituted a zero tolerance policy, and you are claiming he didn’t cave?
What happened to “this is the democrats law and they need to fix it”
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
How many bills got to the senate and were even threatening to be brought to a vote?
On what, immigration?
Why waste time and effort if Chuck makes it clear he will block them. I really thought you knew how this works, apparently you don't.

So he stopped separating kids from their families, the thing there was outrage over because his DOJ had instituted a zero tolerance policy, and you are claiming he didn’t cave?
What happened to “this is the democrats law and they need to fix it”

It is still a zero-tolerance policy. The parents will still be taken into custody, just kept with their children until processed.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
On what, immigration?
Why waste time and effort if Chuck makes it clear he will block them. I really thought you knew how this works, apparently you don't.



It is still a zero-tolerance policy. The parents will still be taken into custody, just kept with their children until processed.

I know you are really trying to pull a win from this loss, but the bolded part is exactly where trump backed down. He was taking #### for separating kids from their families, he blamed it on Ds, and then he issued an EO that changed his admins policy.


I know exactly how it works. If they had a bill and chuck was filibustering I would blame him. Instead exactly zero bills made it to the senate to force a vote.
Blaming that on the Ds is like blaming a girl you didn’t ask out for rejecting you, or blaming a company you didn’t apply to for not hiring you.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
I know you are really trying to pull a win from this loss, but the bolded part is exactly where trump backed down. He was taking #### for separating kids from their families, he blamed it on Ds, and then he issued an EO that changed his admins policy.


I know exactly how it works. If they had a bill and chuck was filibustering I would blame him. Instead exactly zero bills made it to the senate to force a vote.
Blaming that on the Ds is like blaming a girl you didn’t ask out for rejecting you, or blaming a company you didn’t apply to for not hiring you.

See, this is the typical BS on all of this. I am not trying to pull a win. I'm saying it isn't a loss. Zero-tolerance still in place. Illegal entry is no longer treated as a civil matter, but as a criminal matter. They aren't getting desk-tickets with a promise to appear and released into our society to fade away into obscurity with no intent to appear.

And no you don't seem to know how it works. Bills are shelved all the time without bringing them to the floor because of the known futility of the process without a hint of a filibuster. Even some that could reach the 60 vote threshold are still shelved by the expressed threat of a veto because it is known they don't have the clout to override.
 

Monello

Smarter than the average bear
PREMO Member
I wish he didn't make any changes. Time to send the message that we intend to secure our southern border. Make it as painful as possible for people trying to sneak in illegally.

And while he's at it change the rule for anchor babies, cut legal immigration to 500,000, end the visa lottery and do away with chain migration.
 

littlelady

God bless the USA
I wish he didn't make any changes. Time to send the message that we intend to secure our southern border. Make it as painful as possible for people trying to sneak in illegally.

And while he's at it change the rule for anchor babies, cut legal immigration to 500,000, end the visa lottery and do away with chain migration.

Maybe, he would do that. Put it in his suggestion box. I see it as Trump knows how to play the game. He is still in control. I look at it as another brownie point that will get him elected again. We will need him, again, if America has any chance of becoming Her former self.

The outrageous thing of it all is that Trump is now being bashed for his EO; bashed if you do, and bashed if you don’t. What I don’t get is why Bush, Clinton, and Obama were not equally bashed for the immigration policies they supported; especially, Obama.
 

philibusters

Active Member
To me it is an obvious political loss for Trump partly because Trump set the expectations for what a win would be. Trump was saying that he would change the enforcement policy as part of a bigger measure that included funding for the wall. He ended up not getting that funding for the wall. In that sense it was a political loss because he had stated quite publicly that was intention.

Ultimately the visuals against Trump were worse than I think they realized they would be. Just like Trump's number dipped when he defended some of the protesters are Charlottesville---this is an issue that Trump received some support from his core base on, but overall the optics were so bad it was not a winnable issue and he had to give.
 

JustACitizen

New Member
Trump didn't back down ----------he won.
Trumps has said repeatedly that he didn't like separating families.
He wanted the Congress to do something about it, but they didn't have the courage.
He knows if he fixes this with an EO that Democrats will have a conniption.
So he waits until Chuck the Schmuck tells him to do it with his pen.
The Schmuck just told Trump to go around the Congress and make laws with his pen.
So Trump does it and the Senate cannot complain--they told him to.

He nailed their dumb asses again and he can now use his pen any time he wants,

I'm not sure what you're going on about .. POTUS didn't "need" Congress to do anything. The ability to do this has always belonged to POTUS exclusively. Congress has made sure to transfer more and more power to the EOP for many decades now so they don't have to answer to constituents.

Not a win by any measure of the word "win" for POTUS. At all. None.

I would have been fine if he left it alone.
 
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