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Thread: Coal update

  1. #1

    Coal update

    Despite the Trump administration’s efforts to bolster thermal coal demand from U.S. power generators, the thermal market has continued to shrink as coal plants get beat out by cheaper natural gas-fired generators and renewable energy sources.

    “Exports are the saving grace,” said Andrew Cosgrove of Bloomberg Intelligence. “If you’re a thermal coal producer, you’re not going to get any help from the domestic market.”

    Overall, U.S. coal output fell 2.3 percent through June 30 compared with a year ago.
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/state...221313292.html

    Coal is being beat by cheaper, cleaner alternatives. This was true before the election and still holds true today. Trump's buffoonery can't change market forces (and of course "true" Patriots and conservatives don't want the govt picking winners and losers, right?).

  2. #2
    Exporting it is great!
    "Dark humor is like food. Not everyone gets it." - J. Stalin

  3. #3
    The alternative was his opponent's plan - to shut it down completely. You call TRUMP a moron? How do you think this played out in the coal regions of the nation?
    Dropping 2.3 percent is much preferable to dropping 100%.

    Until technology is developed to make use of our vast coal reserves - the largest in the world - its use WILL continue to dwindle.
    But I have little doubt that such technology WILL be found. It's too great a commodity to just leave in the ground untouched.
    “Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.".Daniel Webster

  4. #4
    Imagine No Democrats Kyle's Avatar
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    Whether you like it or not, coal is going to remain an important source of energy for a long time to come.

    Electrical Production: 2017
    Fossil fuels (total) 2,516 62.7%
    Natural gas 1,273 31.7%
    Coal 1,208 30.1%
    Petroleum (total) 21 0.5%
    Petroleum liquids 13 0.3%
    Petroleum coke 9 0.2%
    Other gases 14 0.4%
    Nuclear 805 20.0%
    Renewables (total) 687 17.1%
    Hydropower 300 7.5%
    Wind 254 6.3%
    Biomass (total) 64 1.6%
    Wood 43 1.1%
    Landfill gas 11 0.3%
    Municipal solid waste (biogenic) 7 0.2%
    Other biomass waste 3 0.1%
    Solar (total) 53 1.3%
    Photovoltaic 50 1.2%
    Solar thermal 3 0.1%
    Geothermal 16 0.4%
    Pumped storage hydropower3 -6 -0.2%
    Other sources 13 0.3%
    ___________________________________________________________
    "If You Don’t Read the Newspaper You Are Uninformed, If You Do Read the Newspaper You Are Misinformed." - Mark Twain

  5. #5
    Registered User
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    A couple of more incidents like Fukushima or Chernoble and people might start thinking Nuclear is a but dangerous.
    As once these incident occur it is impossible to stop.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Hijinx View Post
    A couple of more incidents like Fukushima or Chernoble and people might start thinking Nuclear is a but dangerous.
    As once these incident occur it is impossible to stop.
    I started my college career pursuing a degree in nuclear engineering.
    The spring of my freshman year, Three Mile Island happened. I saw the writing on the wall and switched majors.
    I wasn't wrong. Years later, I was working for Harvard in their radiation safety department, and watched the last new plant in the country open -
    Seabrook New Hampshire. Around that time, Chernobyl took place - and THAT was an example of very typical Russian development -
    EXTREMELY weak on safety, backups, any kind of rational development. They might as well have built it in a basement.
    And true to form, the Russians tried to HIDE it until the whole world knew. (They have before and since had MANY nuclear accidents
    around their nation, and the surrounding towns are now missing from current maps, just as some of their cosmonauts just disappeared).

    Fukushima was another matter. A well built reactor - in an extremely stupid place.

    As much as we often tout nations like China and France, who develop most or significant portion of their power from nuclear -
    we're still leading the world in nuclear power - and no accidents except for that little puff back in '79, which resulted in no deaths.
    AND there are technologies to make nuclear *MUCH* safer - for example, LFTR and molten salt reactors, which CANNOT have meltdowns,
    because they must be externally heated in order to operate.

    I have great faith in the future of nuclear, if the research in it is allowed to progress.

    Of course, the downside of nuclear is, it really just takes one seriously bad accident to literally blow it all to hell.
    So - I do get it. I also remember that steam driven cars were touted as being much more inherently dangerous than gasoline engines,
    and the advertisements went "do you want your children blown sky-high" with imagery suggesting the very same.
    About the most dishonest campaign I've ever run across, historically.
    “Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.".Daniel Webster

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by transporter View Post
    Coal
    "Never let the old man in." - Clint Eastwood quoting an old friend

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by transporter View Post
    Coal is being beat by cheaper, cleaner alternatives. This was true before the election and still holds true today. Trump's buffoonery can't change market forces (and of course "true" Patriots and conservatives don't want the govt picking winners and losers, right?).
    The government should not pick winners and losers, this is very true. Of course, that's not what the last administration did. They routinely chose winners, and forced losers. Remember Mr. Obama's position on coal as he was running for president: 'If someone wants to build a new coal-fired power plant they can, but it will bankrupt them because they will be charged a huge sum for all the greenhouse gas that’s being emitted." In a rare act on Mr. Obama's part, he kept that campaign promise. He instituted the "Clean Power Plan".

    Interesting that you are bringing up coal today, as just yesterday there was released a draft of the plan to modify the regulations associated with the Clean Power Plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by NYT, July 5, 2018
    WASHINGTON — The Trump administration has drafted a new proposal to regulate carbon dioxide emissions from coal-fired power plants, one that is far less stringent than the climate plan finalized in 2015 by former President Barack Obama.

    ...

    The new proposal, according to industry attorneys familiar with the plan, would recommend regulating the emissions of individual coal plants, which would call for modest upgrades, such as improving efficiency or substituting fuel. That contrasts with the more ambitious goals of the Clean Power Plan, which encouraged utilities to make broader systemic changes to cut emissions, such as switching from coal to natural gas or renewable power.

    ...

    ...the E.P.A. crafted a new plan that would technically regulate carbon dioxide without forcing major changes on the industry. Among other things, the new proposal would give states significant leeway in enforcing the rules. Industry attorneys said they expected it to borrow elements from a proposal Mr. Pruitt himself drafted for Oklahoma in 2014, in the course of challenging the Obama administration’s plan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapidus View Post
    I'm sure Trump will be charged with more crimes before Hillary.

    Please pin this for future reference

    Pinned, as requested.....

  9. #9
    INGSOC GURPS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by transporter View Post
    Coal is being beat by cheaper, cleaner alternatives. This was true before the election and still holds true today. Trump's buffoonery can't change market forces (and of course "true" Patriots and conservatives don't want the govt picking winners and losers, right?).




    Quote Originally Posted by transporter View Post
    Every post you make is against anyone or any group that doesn't conform to your propagandist viewpoints.
    We’re tempted to suggest a conspiracy here — but it’s just liberals agreeing yet again that conservatives have hidden, evil motives, because modern liberals simply can’t conceive of any other reason to disagree with the liberal consensus.

    “Moral precepts are constant through the ages and not obedient to circumstances.”

  10. #10
    You'd go to jail for this gemma_rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by transporter View Post
    finance.yahoo.com
    Big Yahoo fan are you?
    Don't f**k with me fellas! This ain't my first time at the rodeo. ~ Joan Crawford

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