At Helsinki, Trump Undermined Our Power-Abusing Intelligence Agencies, Not America

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Trump’s Critics Are Wrong, And Trump Had A Point

After all the selective leaking to frame the Trump administration for obstruction, after a U.S. presidential campaign was spied on by the opposing Party’s administration, after years of botched or politicized intelligence assessments, after years of arming bad guys around the world, and after multiple revelations of spying on Journalists, Congress, and American citizens — of course it is appropriate to doubt the U.S. intelligence agencies.

Yes, Russia meddled in our election. But the degree to which Russia interfered — and favored Trump — matters. This affects the Mueller investigation, the amount of power we give the intelligence community to combat this interference, and U.S. foreign policy with the world’s other preeminent nuclear power. And the degree to which Russia interfered is still open for debate.

We can be certain about a few things. First, there was the hugely overblown and even pathetic social media campaign run by a Russian troll-farm. This campaign mostly appeared in non-swing-states, and the majority of its spending occurred after the election. In fact, only $46,000 was spent before Election Day, which should be compared to the Trump and Clinton campaigns’ combined $81 million spent on Facebook ads.

Russia also meddled by launching a massive spear-phishing campaign — in which a hacker sends a fake email that tries to trick people into giving out their log-in information — that surely targeted the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton-campaign. But this “hacking” campaign also targeted Republicans, a fact special counsel Robert Mueller didn’t include in his indictment of 12 Russians that occurred days before the Trump-Putin summit.


http://thefederalist.com/2018/07/20...er-abusing-intelligence-agencies-not-america/
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
...the degree to which Russia interfered — and favored Trump — matters.

I'm not sure it should matter, unless (of course) it changed the outcome of the election. For example, if they targeted polling stations and changed the actual, legitimate, legal-citizen vote count from what it was to what they wanted, THAT would matter.

There's not even a hint of a shadow of that allegation except in media innuendo. That did NOT happen.

But, if we are interfering in other countries' elections or they are interfering in ours, the level of competence in the interference should not matter. Wrong is wrong, and significant response is justified.

This happened during every presidential administration since at least Eisenhower. We ignore it because it seems inconsequential. That's inappropriate in my opinion.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure it should matter, unless (of course) it changed the outcome of the election. For example, if they targeted polling stations and changed the actual, legitimate, legal-citizen vote count from what it was to what they wanted, THAT would matter.

There's not even a hint of a shadow of that allegation except in media innuendo. That did NOT happen.

But, if we are interfering in other countries' elections or they are interfering in ours, the level of competence in the interference should not matter. Wrong is wrong, and significant response is justified.

This happened during every presidential administration since at least Eisenhower. We ignore it because it seems inconsequential. That's inappropriate in my opinion.

Who did interfere in our election?
The DNC did when they screwed Bernie.
Now that was probably the most serious offense, since IMO if Bernie had been their candidate he would have won.

George Soros of course with his money and anti-American 401's

Hillary interfered with her own election by being lazy and thinking she had it in the bag.

Russian interference was minimal and was useless.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Russian interference was minimal and was useless.

To me, that's like saying, "well, the guy missed when he shot at me so you really have no crime there."

I'm all for laughing at their incompetence, etc., but the goal was clearly not to get one person elected over another. The vast majority of the money they spent was AFTER the election. Their goal, clearly, was to sew the seeds of discontent within our own system. In that, they succeeded 100% at a very low cost.

We don't belong in other countries' elections, and they don't belong in ours. Whether their meddling had the slightest bit of influence in the outcome (clearly it did not) is immaterial.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
To me, that's like saying, "well, the guy missed when he shot at me so you really have no crime there."

I'm all for laughing at their incompetence, etc., but the goal was clearly not to get one person elected over another. The vast majority of the money they spent was AFTER the election. Their goal, clearly, was to sew the seeds of discontent within our own system. In that, they succeeded 100% at a very low cost.

We don't belong in other countries' elections, and they don't belong in ours. Whether their meddling had the slightest bit of influence in the outcome (clearly it did not) is immaterial.

Well You are right I believe.

But don't you find it strange that the Russians tried to sew the seeds of discontent in our system at about the same time that Hillary was buying the Steele Dossier?
Were Hillary and the Russians working together?
They both seem to have the same idea in mind.

And the plan is working. We have paid Mueller and his 16 Dem lawyers as pee pot full of money to keep it going.


How's that for a conspiracy theory. It seems open and shut.
 

Lurk

Happy Creepy Ass Cracka
To me, that's like saying, "well, the guy missed when he shot at me so you really have no crime there."

If you really want to make a valid point, it would be better for you not to use hypothetical examples like this. If the guy missed when he shot at you, there actually would have been a crime. It just wouldn't have been murder.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Well You are right I believe.

But don't you find it strange that the Russians tried to sew the seeds of discontent in our system at about the same time that Hillary was buying the Steele Dossier?
Were Hillary and the Russians working together?
They both seem to have the same idea in mind.

And the plan is working. We have paid Mueller and his 16 Dem lawyers as pee pot full of money to keep it going.


How's that for a conspiracy theory. It seems open and shut.

They have been doing this since before Hillary was born.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
If you really want to make a valid point, it would be better for you not to use hypothetical examples like this. If the guy missed when he shot at you, there actually would have been a crime. It just wouldn't have been murder.

See, that's exactly the point. Just because they missed doesn't mean there wasn't a crime. We are acting like there's no crime, and the point I was countering was the OP point that their level of competence in achieving the goal we pretend they were trying to achieve matters. It doesn't matter is my point. Whether they were trying to seat Trump or Clinton, whether they were successful or not - none of that matters. The OP said it does, I say it does not.

For the very reason you state - because a crime (in this case, the "crime" being foreign intrusion into our system) actually was committed. Poorly or not, successful or not, it's a problem.

A problem the president at last verified attack said, "cut it out, guys" to the perp. That's the level of concern he had about it. Because he did it too, to Israel. See where there's a problem with this?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
It seems like only yesterday that liberals were suspicious of the spooks and were against conflict with other countries.
 
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