Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: At Helsinki, Trump Undermined Our Power-Abusing Intelligence Agencies, Not America

  1. #1
    INGSOC GURPS's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Peoples Republic Of Maryland
    Posts
    39,724

    At Helsinki, Trump Undermined Our Power-Abusing Intelligence Agencies, Not America

    Trump’s Critics Are Wrong, And Trump Had A Point

    After all the selective leaking to frame the Trump administration for obstruction, after a U.S. presidential campaign was spied on by the opposing Party’s administration, after years of botched or politicized intelligence assessments, after years of arming bad guys around the world, and after multiple revelations of spying on Journalists, Congress, and American citizens — of course it is appropriate to doubt the U.S. intelligence agencies.

    Yes, Russia meddled in our election. But the degree to which Russia interfered — and favored Trump — matters. This affects the Mueller investigation, the amount of power we give the intelligence community to combat this interference, and U.S. foreign policy with the world’s other preeminent nuclear power. And the degree to which Russia interfered is still open for debate.

    We can be certain about a few things. First, there was the hugely overblown and even pathetic social media campaign run by a Russian troll-farm. This campaign mostly appeared in non-swing-states, and the majority of its spending occurred after the election. In fact, only $46,000 was spent before Election Day, which should be compared to the Trump and Clinton campaigns’ combined $81 million spent on Facebook ads.

    Russia also meddled by launching a massive spear-phishing campaign — in which a hacker sends a fake email that tries to trick people into giving out their log-in information — that surely targeted the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton-campaign. But this “hacking” campaign also targeted Republicans, a fact special counsel Robert Mueller didn’t include in his indictment of 12 Russians that occurred days before the Trump-Putin summit.


    http://thefederalist.com/2018/07/20/...s-not-america/
    We’re tempted to suggest a conspiracy here — but it’s just liberals agreeing yet again that conservatives have hidden, evil motives, because modern liberals simply can’t conceive of any other reason to disagree with the liberal consensus.

    “Moral precepts are constant through the ages and not obedient to circumstances.”

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by GURPS View Post
    ...the degree to which Russia interfered — and favored Trump — matters.
    I'm not sure it should matter, unless (of course) it changed the outcome of the election. For example, if they targeted polling stations and changed the actual, legitimate, legal-citizen vote count from what it was to what they wanted, THAT would matter.

    There's not even a hint of a shadow of that allegation except in media innuendo. That did NOT happen.

    But, if we are interfering in other countries' elections or they are interfering in ours, the level of competence in the interference should not matter. Wrong is wrong, and significant response is justified.

    This happened during every presidential administration since at least Eisenhower. We ignore it because it seems inconsequential. That's inappropriate in my opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapidus View Post
    I'm sure Trump will be charged with more crimes before Hillary.

    Please pin this for future reference

    Pinned, as requested.....

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Member Since
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    27,450
    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    I'm not sure it should matter, unless (of course) it changed the outcome of the election. For example, if they targeted polling stations and changed the actual, legitimate, legal-citizen vote count from what it was to what they wanted, THAT would matter.

    There's not even a hint of a shadow of that allegation except in media innuendo. That did NOT happen.

    But, if we are interfering in other countries' elections or they are interfering in ours, the level of competence in the interference should not matter. Wrong is wrong, and significant response is justified.

    This happened during every presidential administration since at least Eisenhower. We ignore it because it seems inconsequential. That's inappropriate in my opinion.
    Who did interfere in our election?
    The DNC did when they screwed Bernie.
    Now that was probably the most serious offense, since IMO if Bernie had been their candidate he would have won.

    George Soros of course with his money and anti-American 401's

    Hillary interfered with her own election by being lazy and thinking she had it in the bag.

    Russian interference was minimal and was useless.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hijinx View Post
    Russian interference was minimal and was useless.
    To me, that's like saying, "well, the guy missed when he shot at me so you really have no crime there."

    I'm all for laughing at their incompetence, etc., but the goal was clearly not to get one person elected over another. The vast majority of the money they spent was AFTER the election. Their goal, clearly, was to sew the seeds of discontent within our own system. In that, they succeeded 100% at a very low cost.

    We don't belong in other countries' elections, and they don't belong in ours. Whether their meddling had the slightest bit of influence in the outcome (clearly it did not) is immaterial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapidus View Post
    I'm sure Trump will be charged with more crimes before Hillary.

    Please pin this for future reference

    Pinned, as requested.....

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Member Since
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    27,450
    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    To me, that's like saying, "well, the guy missed when he shot at me so you really have no crime there."

    I'm all for laughing at their incompetence, etc., but the goal was clearly not to get one person elected over another. The vast majority of the money they spent was AFTER the election. Their goal, clearly, was to sew the seeds of discontent within our own system. In that, they succeeded 100% at a very low cost.

    We don't belong in other countries' elections, and they don't belong in ours. Whether their meddling had the slightest bit of influence in the outcome (clearly it did not) is immaterial.
    Well You are right I believe.

    But don't you find it strange that the Russians tried to sew the seeds of discontent in our system at about the same time that Hillary was buying the Steele Dossier?
    Were Hillary and the Russians working together?
    They both seem to have the same idea in mind.

    And the plan is working. We have paid Mueller and his 16 Dem lawyers as pee pot full of money to keep it going.


    How's that for a conspiracy theory. It seems open and shut.

  6. #6
    Happy Creepy Ass Cracka Lurk's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    14,177
    Quote Originally Posted by This_person View Post
    To me, that's like saying, "well, the guy missed when he shot at me so you really have no crime there."
    If you really want to make a valid point, it would be better for you not to use hypothetical examples like this. If the guy missed when he shot at you, there actually would have been a crime. It just wouldn't have been murder.
    Saying we are a country of "Immigrants" is an insult to our ancestors.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Hijinx View Post
    Well You are right I believe.

    But don't you find it strange that the Russians tried to sew the seeds of discontent in our system at about the same time that Hillary was buying the Steele Dossier?
    Were Hillary and the Russians working together?
    They both seem to have the same idea in mind.

    And the plan is working. We have paid Mueller and his 16 Dem lawyers as pee pot full of money to keep it going.


    How's that for a conspiracy theory. It seems open and shut.
    They have been doing this since before Hillary was born.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapidus View Post
    I'm sure Trump will be charged with more crimes before Hillary.

    Please pin this for future reference

    Pinned, as requested.....

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    If you really want to make a valid point, it would be better for you not to use hypothetical examples like this. If the guy missed when he shot at you, there actually would have been a crime. It just wouldn't have been murder.
    See, that's exactly the point. Just because they missed doesn't mean there wasn't a crime. We are acting like there's no crime, and the point I was countering was the OP point that their level of competence in achieving the goal we pretend they were trying to achieve matters. It doesn't matter is my point. Whether they were trying to seat Trump or Clinton, whether they were successful or not - none of that matters. The OP said it does, I say it does not.

    For the very reason you state - because a crime (in this case, the "crime" being foreign intrusion into our system) actually was committed. Poorly or not, successful or not, it's a problem.

    A problem the president at last verified attack said, "cut it out, guys" to the perp. That's the level of concern he had about it. Because he did it too, to Israel. See where there's a problem with this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapidus View Post
    I'm sure Trump will be charged with more crimes before Hillary.

    Please pin this for future reference

    Pinned, as requested.....

  9. #9
    Board Mommy vraiblonde's Avatar
    Member Since
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Off the grid
    Posts
    124,662
    Blog Entries
    2
    It seems like only yesterday that liberals were suspicious of the spooks and were against conflict with other countries.
    "Too much agreement kills a chat."
    ~Eldridge Cleaver

  10. #10
    Imagine No Democrats Kyle's Avatar
    Member Since
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    13,276
    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    It seems like only yesterday that liberals were suspicious of the spooks and were against conflict with other countries.
    They are morally, ethically and politically flexible.
    ___________________________________________________________
    "If You Don’t Read the Newspaper You Are Uninformed, If You Do Read the Newspaper You Are Misinformed." - Mark Twain

Members who have read this thread: 23

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Search:     Advanced Search
Search HELP

| Home | Help | Contact Us | About somd.com | Privacy | Advertising | Sponsors | Newsletter |

| What's New | What's Cool | Top Rated | Add A Link | Mod a Link |

| Announcements | Bookstore | Cafe | Calendar | Classifieds | Community |
| Culture | Dating | Dining | Education | Employment | Entertainment |
| Forums | Free E-Mail | Games | Gear! | Government | Guestbook | Health | Marketplace | Mortgage | News |
| Organizations | Photos | Real Estate | Relocation | Sports | Survey | Travel | Wiki | Weather | Worship |