Question to those opposing Trump --

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Do you believe that ---

1. Russians not only interfered with the the 2016 election - not in dispute - but CHANGED THE OUTCOME?
2. Trump sought their assistance to win the election?
3. Russians - or any foreign agent - spied on or hacked into Democrats, Hillary or the DNC at the expressed direction of Donald Trump or anyone in his campaign?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Do you believe that ---

1. Russians not only interfered with the the 2016 election - not in dispute - but CHANGED THE OUTCOME?
2. Trump sought their assistance to win the election?
3. Russians - or any foreign agent - spied on or hacked into Democrats, Hillary or the DNC at the expressed direction of Donald Trump or anyone in his campaign?

Good luck getting an answer.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member

Really, I just want to know - I frankly think you'd have to be a lunatic to believe the Russians actually CHANGED the outcome of the election -
Obama himself clearly said that changing the outcome of a national election would be nigh unto impossible because every precinct is done differently -
that the chaos alone would make it far too difficult.

But I just can't get that people think Trump - with a billion dollars at his disposal - would have to go to our arch enemy to win an election,
when - if they couldn't CHANGE the tallies - could not really do anything we couldn't already do.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Really, I just want to know - I frankly think you'd have to be a lunatic to believe the Russians actually CHANGED the outcome of the election -

I think you have to be a lunatic to think that knowledge of Trump boinking some porn chick would have changed the outcome of the election.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Really, I just want to know ....

I know ... but you can glean from the hysteria from Sappy / Salmon exactly what they believe
[sometimes Transporter - but she is mostly whining about how Trump is incompetent and lies]

although Sappy has shifted [with the Progressive Media] from Collusion mantra from a yr ago to the latest Campaign Finance Violations ....

Speaking to # 2:

but one of them did reiterated the 'Trump Asked The Russians to Hack Hillary to Get the Emails' farce yesterday or the day before ....

Speaking to # 3

Russia(ns) Hacked the DNC to Help Trump [not in Collusion] 2 Million dollars in Facebook ads and 12 Russians in Minsk from a Troll Farm assisted as well
there was a report about Guicifer 2.0 being a bunch of GRU Operatives - indited by Muller 2? months ago
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
I have not seen any evidence that Russian were able to hack any voting machines and change anyones actual votes no.

However, The difference in this election was 77,000 votes.

I believe that the disinformation campaign that Russia paid for more than influenced that amount of people to not vote due to false information about the democratic party and Hillary Clinton. ( Pizzagate, Seth Rich, Hillary laughing about a child being raped, stealing the endorsement from Bernie)

https://www.weeklystandard.com/john...n-pennsylvania-wisconsin-and-michigan-updated

2. I have not seen evidence that Trump worked with the Russian Govt directly.

The meeting in Trump tower is very suspicious to me not only because it took place but because of the numerous lies told about it by Trump and his son.

Trump's behavior toward Putin and his lack of confidence and unwillingness to support our countries intelligence community is also very troubling and suspicious to me.

3. We know that Wikileaks dumped DNC emails and that Russia tried to hack DNC servers all with 48 hours of Trump asking publicly for them to find those missing emails. If he is saying that in public i have little doubt that he or people working for his campaign were most likely dong that and much more behind the scenes. We also know that second dump of emails lead Comey to make a unprecedented statement warning of the new crop of emails which certainly didnt help Clinton.


I would say given what we know it is ore than reasonable for Mueller to continue his investigation especially considering the amount of time he has been distracted by all the other crimes he has turned up along the way.


As much as everyone here hates Clinton I don't recall anyone saying the Benghazi investigation was going on too long or costing too much money. Why is this different?

I also don't recall Clinton tweeting everyone day about how she was persecuted and that it was a witch hunt. Why is this different?
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
As much as everyone here hates Clinton I don't recall anyone saying the Benghazi investigation was going on too long or costing too much money. Why is this different?



4 people died running Libyan Guns to Syria and Multiple people in the Obama Administration LIED about what happened and an innocent man went to jail
 
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Sapidus

Well-Known Member
4 people died running Libyan Guns to Syria and Multiple people in the Obama Administration LIED about what happened and an innocent man went to jail

Yeah and three people have gone or are going to prison because of Mueller investigation and many more have lied about it.

As usual. What's your point?
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
This was an uncharacteristically informative, concise, and on-topic response. As such, it deserves the same in return:

I have not seen any evidence that Russian were able to hack any voting machines and change anyones actual votes no.

However, The difference in this election was 77,000 votes.

No, the difference was several million votes apparently in Clinton's favor. You are making your assertion of 77,000 votes based on assumptions that Clinton could certainly never lose states like California or New York, and Trump certainly could not lose states such as Wyoming and Alaska. Late twentieth century and early twenty-first century elections demonstrate this is patently false. Certainly someone who was more qualified to be president than Washington, Madison, Jefferson, Reagan, etc., should have been able to pull off wins in states like Reagan or Obama did.

I believe that the disinformation campaign that Russia paid for more than influenced that amount of people to not vote due to false information about the democratic party and Hillary Clinton. ( Pizzagate, Seth Rich, Hillary laughing about a child being raped, stealing the endorsement from Bernie)

So, you're suggesting a handful of Russians speaking broken English with only a few tens of thousands of dollars to work with had a better information campaign than the single greatest human being to ever run for president? Is that seriously your position?

The questions about the child trafficking ring, about the murder of Seth Rich, etc., are just that - questions. Reasonable journalists on both sides raised the exact same questions. WRT Hillary laughing about getting a rapist off - she did. It has been pointed out that she was laughing that she lost all faith in (the totally disproven) lie detector tests, not at getting him off. But, the point is, THAT POINT WAS RAISED. No one changed anyone's mind with that. She actually did steal the primary election from Bernie - at the very least it has been demonstrated through those leaked e-mails that she rigged the elections.

2. I have not seen evidence that Trump worked with the Russian Govt directly.

The meeting in Trump tower is very suspicious to me not only because it took place but because of the numerous lies told about it by Trump and his son.

Trump's behavior toward Putin and his lack of confidence and unwillingness to support our countries intelligence community is also very troubling and suspicious to me.

You mean, other than the increased sanctions and chastising allies for supporting Russia? You know, drastically increasing funding for the European Deterrence Initiative, sending weapons to the Ukraine, improving the posture of American forces in Syria to attack even where Russians may be present (all SIGNIFICANTLY more harsh than anything Obama - the guy with "more flexibility" towards Russia - ever did).

I mean, we want to be completely unbiased, right?

3. We know that Wikileaks dumped DNC emails and that Russia tried to hack DNC servers all with 48 hours of Trump asking publicly for them to find those missing emails. If he is saying that in public i have little doubt that he or people working for his campaign were most likely dong that and much more behind the scenes. We also know that second dump of emails lead Comey to make a unprecedented statement warning of the new crop of emails which certainly didnt help Clinton.

Yet, Julian Assange specifically said that that first batch of e-mails did NOT come from a government source, and data revealed that the ONLY way the e-mails were taken off of the system would have been an INSIDER in the DNC downloading directly to a "thumb drive". See Seth Rich, and Podesta's e-mails regarding handling the situation of the "leaker".

The second dump of e-mails came from Clinton's girl Friday's husband's porn computer. The skeevie guy had her #### on it while sending dick pics to little girls. Had nothing to do with anyone else.

The "behind the scenes" actions had nothing to do with a foreign actor.


I would say given what we know it is ore than reasonable for Mueller to continue his investigation especially considering the amount of time he has been distracted by all the other crimes he has turned up along the way.

Other than Podesta, every other crime was CREATED by the investigation. He found some Russians and indicted them, knowing full well they'd never be tried. As Comey said, if you don't have something after a year, shut it down because you're a ####ty investigator if you don't know where it's going by then. It's been three years (pre-Mueller to present).

As much as everyone here hates Clinton I don't recall anyone saying the Benghazi investigation was going on too long or costing too much money. Why is this different?

There was a verifiable crime that was committed, not a hunt to find a crime.

I also don't recall Clinton tweeting everyone day about how she was persecuted and that it was a witch hunt. Why is this different?

Becaues Trump knows how to use Twitter, and Clinton didn't back then. She used other means to cry about how she was being mistreated, that's all that was different.
 

Sapidus

Well-Known Member
This was an uncharacteristically informative, concise, and on-topic response. As such, it deserves the same in return:



No, the difference was several million votes apparently in Clinton's favor. You are making your assertion of 77,000 votes based on assumptions that Clinton could certainly never lose states like California or New York, and Trump certainly could not lose states such as Wyoming and Alaska. Late twentieth century and early twenty-first century elections demonstrate this is patently false. Certainly someone who was more qualified to be president than Washington, Madison, Jefferson, Reagan, etc., should have been able to pull off wins in states like Reagan or Obama did.

Why do you keep claiming things that i never said? He won by 77,000 votes based on the electoral college. What does all your babbling have to do with anything?

So, you're suggesting a handful of Russians speaking broken English with only a few tens of thousands of dollars to work with had a better information campaign than the single greatest human being to ever run for president? Is that seriously your position?

It was much more than a handful. Hundreds of websites, bots and fake profiles have been found and if you think the one troll farm indicted is the only one you are out of your mind

The questions about the child trafficking ring, about the murder of Seth Rich, etc., are just that - questions. Reasonable journalists on both sides raised the exact same questions. WRT Hillary laughing about getting a rapist off - she did. It has been pointed out that she was laughing that she lost all faith in (the totally disproven) lie detector tests, not at getting him off. But, the point is, THAT POINT WAS RAISED. No one changed anyone's mind with that. She actually did steal the primary election from Bernie - at the very least it has been demonstrated through those leaked e-mails that she rigged the elections.

Yes they are questions but idiots out there believe them as truth. more than enough idiots to amount to 77,0000k As you have said you do in the past the same with the Clinton Kill list and all the other insanity you have been brainwashed into believing. You believe the most insane things about Obama and Clinton yet when actual crimes are sworn to under oath by Trumps accomplice you dismiss them. Seems fishy



You mean, other than the increased sanctions and chastising allies for supporting Russia? You know, drastically increasing funding for the European Deterrence Initiative, sending weapons to the Ukraine, improving the posture of American forces in Syria to attack even where Russians may be present (all SIGNIFICANTLY more harsh than anything Obama - the guy with "more flexibility" towards Russia - ever did).

I mean, we want to be completely unbiased, right?

You mean when Trump showed what a coward he was by not even bringing up the topic of election interference with Putin and doubting our own countries intelligence agencies

Yet, Julian Assange specifically said that that first batch of e-mails did NOT come from a government source, and data revealed that the ONLY way the e-mails were taken off of the system would have been an INSIDER in the DNC downloading directly to a "thumb drive". See Seth Rich, and Podesta's e-mails regarding handling the situation of the "leaker". "More crackpot conspiracy"

The second dump of e-mails came from Clinton's girl Friday's husband's porn computer. The skeevie guy had her #### on it while sending dick pics to little girls. Had nothing to do with anyone else. "So he is skeevie for that and Trump is just a man's man? More of your hypocrisy

The "behind the scenes" actions had nothing to do with a foreign actor.




Other than Podesta, every other crime was CREATED by the investigation. He found some Russians and indicted them, knowing full well they'd never be tried. As Comey said, if you don't have something after a year, shut it down because you're a ####ty investigator if you don't know where it's going by then. It's been three years (pre-Mueller to present).
The campaign director , national security advisor and lawyer are all on their way to jail. What about that do you not get? Those are crimes.


There was a verifiable crime that was committed, not a hunt to find a crime.



Becaues Trump knows how to use Twitter, and Clinton didn't back then. She used other means to cry about how she was being mistreated, that's all that was different.
We have multiple tweets from Clinton from that time showing she knew how to use twitter as well as self control. Yet another lie
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I can tell you from my perspective I don't know anyone that would touch it.

Stormy has handled more hose than the entire NY City Fire Department.

Pass.

Right, and the Playboy model is probably a virgin and therefore still doable.

:tap:
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Why do you keep claiming things that i never said? He won by 77,000 votes based on the electoral college. What does all your babbling have to do with anything?

There are only 538 total votes in the Electoral College. Please ensure you know what you're talking about before talking.

It was much more than a handful. Hundreds of websites, bots and fake profiles have been found and if you think the one troll farm indicted is the only one you are out of your mind

Ok, HUNDREDS of Russians speaking broken English with only a few tens of thousand of dollars to work with had a better information campaign than the single greatest human being to ever run for president? Is that seriously your position?


Yes they are questions but idiots out there believe them as truth. more than enough idiots to amount to 77,0000k As you have said you do in the past the same with the Clinton Kill list and all the other insanity you have been brainwashed into believing. You believe the most insane things about Obama and Clinton yet when actual crimes are sworn to under oath by Trumps accomplice you dismiss them. Seems fishy

See previous comment about messaging campaign. People believe Romney paid no taxes based on Harry Reid (who, I feel fairly sure, is not Russian).

You mean when Trump showed what a coward he was by not even bringing up the topic of election interference with Putin and doubting our own countries intelligence agencies

That never happened. He specifically brought it up in Helsinki.

More crackpot conspiracy

No, those things actually happened. He really said it was not government, the data really said it was downloaded.

So he is skeevie for that and Trump is just a man's man? More of your hypocrisy

Well, I admit I think pedophilia is worse than infidelity, but I'm not sure what that has to do with why the second batch of e-mails has nothing to do with Russia.

The campaign director , national security advisor and lawyer are all on their way to jail. What about that do you not get? Those are crimes.

And yet not a single one of them have a single thing to do with Trump except a lawyer making a claim that Trump directed him to do something that is ostensibly legal, but the lawyer did in an illegal way. What about that do you not get?

We have multiple tweets from Clinton from that time showing she knew how to use twitter as well as self control. Yet another lie

She still doesn't know how to use Twitter to communicate the way Trump does. If she did, a "few hundred" Russians, speaking broken English, with only a few tens of thousands of dollars at their disposal, wouldn't have a better communications campaign than she did/does.
 
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