FACT CHECK: Trump's Misguided Defense Of Cohen Payments

transporter

Well-Known Member
The investigators concluded it was a crime. The prosecutors concluded it was a crime. The judge agreed it was a crime. Cohen's attorneys agreed it was a crime. Cohen himself admitted to the crime under penalty of perjury in open court. The only people on the planet who don't agree with all the parties to the determination that Cohen violated campaign finance rules are Fox News and the ingorati types. So here is another fact checker on the subject. Not that it matters as Trumpians don't believe in facts.


FACT CHECK: Trump's Misguided Defense Of Cohen Payments

Here is the part that can be added to the Everest sized mountain of evidence that details how incompetent our President and those around him are:

5. Could Team Trump have handled this legally?

Campaign finance reports are rife with vague disclosures of expenditures. The campaign probably could have tucked the hush money into a disbursement marked "legal fees," and no one would have noticed.

Or Trump could have just paid those bills himself. A candidate can spend without limit on their own campaign, although it still must be disclosed.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
The investigators concluded it was a crime. The prosecutors concluded it was a crime. The judge agreed it was a crime. Cohen's attorneys agreed it was a crime. Cohen himself admitted to the crime under penalty of perjury in open court. The only people on the planet who don't agree with all the parties to the determination that Cohen violated campaign finance rules are Fox News and the ingorati types. So here is another fact checker on the subject. Not that it matters as Trumpians don't believe in facts.




:bs:
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
2. Trump Didn’t Break The Law. This is the case made by former FEC chairman Bradley Smith, who argues that Trump’s payoffs to the ladies were actually personal expenditures. Writing in The Washington Post, he stated:

However, regardless of what Cohen agreed to in a plea bargain, hush-money payments to mistresses are not really campaign expenditures. It is true that “contribution” and “expenditure” are defined in the Federal Election Campaign Act as anything “for the purpose of influencing any election,” and it may have been intended and hoped that paying hush money would serve that end. The problem is that almost anything a candidate does can be interpreted as intended to “influence an election,” from buying a good watch to make sure he gets to places on time, to getting a massage so that he feels fit for the campaign trail, to buying a new suit so that he looks good on a debate stage. Yet having campaign donors pay for personal luxuries — such as expensive watches, massages and Brooks Brothers suits — seems more like bribery than funding campaign speech.

In other words, Trump’s attempts to “influence an election” isn’t enough to label an action a campaign finance issue. The counterargument would be FEC language regarding the applicable test: “if the expense would exist even in the absence of the candidacy or even if the officeholder were not in office, then the personal use ban applies.” In other words, it’s only a personal expenditure if Trump would have paid for it regardless of the context. Trump may have a defense here: he pays off women all the time. Then he’d have to show evidence that’s true.



https://www.dailywire.com/news/34951/here-are-trumps-two-best-defenses-cohen-campaign-ben-shapiro
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
2. Trump Didn’t Break The Law. This is the case made by former FEC chairman Bradley Smith, who argues that Trump’s payoffs to the ladies were actually personal expenditures. Writing in The Washington Post, he stated:

However, regardless of what Cohen agreed to in a plea bargain, hush-money payments to mistresses are not really campaign expenditures. It is true that “contribution” and “expenditure” are defined in the Federal Election Campaign Act as anything “for the purpose of influencing any election,” and it may have been intended and hoped that paying hush money would serve that end. The problem is that almost anything a candidate does can be interpreted as intended to “influence an election,” from buying a good watch to make sure he gets to places on time, to getting a massage so that he feels fit for the campaign trail, to buying a new suit so that he looks good on a debate stage. Yet having campaign donors pay for personal luxuries — such as expensive watches, massages and Brooks Brothers suits — seems more like bribery than funding campaign speech.

In other words, Trump’s attempts to “influence an election” isn’t enough to label an action a campaign finance issue. The counterargument would be FEC language regarding the applicable test: “if the expense would exist even in the absence of the candidacy or even if the officeholder were not in office, then the personal use ban applies.” In other words, it’s only a personal expenditure if Trump would have paid for it regardless of the context. Trump may have a defense here: he pays off women all the time. Then he’d have to show evidence that’s true.



https://www.dailywire.com/news/34951/here-are-trumps-two-best-defenses-cohen-campaign-ben-shapiro

If paying off women to keep their mouth shut is against the law, half of the Congress is guilty.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
1. Is Cohen Telling The Truth? Cohen isn’t exactly known for his honesty — presumably, that’s why Trump hired him in the first place. And the sole accusation that redounds to Trump depends on Cohen’s word, presumably. With that said, federal prosecutors state:

The proof on these counts at trial…[would include] records obtained from an April 9, 2018 series of search warrants on Mr. Cohen’s premises, including hard copy documents, seized electronic devices, and audio recordings made by Mr. Cohen. We would also offer text messages, messages sent over encrypted applications, phone records, and emails. We would also submit various records produced to us via subpoena, including records from the corporation referenced in the information as Corporation One and records from the media company also referenced in the information.

With that said, even if you have the records of Trump telling Cohen to pay off the women, that’s not necessarily enough: you have to show that he did it for the express purpose of shaping the election, and in knowing violation of campaign finance law.


https://www.dailywire.com/news/34875/5-questions-need-answering-regarding-trumps-ben-shapiro
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
The only people on the planet who don't agree with all the parties to the determination that Cohen violated campaign finance rules are Fox News and the ingorati types.

...and a ton of very reputable lawyers ..like Dershowitz, for example.

Sorry sweetie..you lose.
 

Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
Dear Transporter,

Intervention time.

I could have picked any post of yours; it's purely random that I picked this one.

But here's what needs to be said: you need an editor. You write with quantity and yes, sometimes even with quality (i.e., events or articles chosen). But (yes, there's a "but"), your writing borders on incoherent. Not crazy incoherent, but writing that suffers from a lack of internal coherence/congruence. In other words, how you link your argument together really needs work. And the emotional tone..., well, it's screechy and over-the-top. Maybe this would work in HS where one gets points for honesty and verve. Maybe even at an undergraduate level where professors account for adolescents finding themselves. But at the graduate level (the level at which you seem to want your posts received), no.

Further, an editor for proof-reading's sake. "ngorati types"? I assume you mean, "ignorant types." Or, perhaps, "ignoranti" (as a play on persone ignoranti)? But stylistically it can't be both; either "ignorant types" or ignoranti. But also, what are you trying to say? Strictly ad hominem? If so, purely HS. If something else, explain and support.

Let me point out two approaches that I think work very well (picked not because they're the only two; rather, because they reflect opposite approaches that do their posters well). First, I've said in earlier posts that I enjoy vraiblond's posts. Don't always agree with her take on things or her stridency in getting her pique across, but her posts are almost always internally very well-linked/well-presented. For the opposite reason, I like GURP's posts: he posts his articles (which reflect his views) and adds no (or little) commentary.

So choose one: either post and skip the commentary or post with commentary that is better-written/better-constructed.

In the interest of full disclosure, I lean right. But a professional life lived abroad on 5 of the 7 continents (alas, no Antarctica or Australia) has taught me to be appreciative of various cultural and/or political opinions/perspectives. So I try to appreciate what you bring to the forum. But the problem I have with the posts you and your left-leaning colleagues make here on SoMD.com is that your posts come across more as Molotov cocktails or flaming buckets of говно than as thoughtful commentary. If you're posting simply to get a rise out of fellow forum members that's being trollish (though some do seem to find great humor in your silliness). I guess if "troll" is what you're going for, then you've been pretty successful. But one wonders if it is healthy over the long-term. Then again, maybe you just need an outlet to rant. Whether the former or latter, maybe therapy? More expensive - to be sure - than posting your problems away, but certainly a better and healthier, long-term alternative.

Look, I get it: in your mind, Trump is incompetent. Stipulated. Get past it. Duly-elected. Probably will be duly re-elected in 2020. You may have to get past that as well. But in the interim, you have the opportunity to try to persuade others to help you get out of this current (again, for you and yours) nightmare. So, for instance, offer positive reasons to consider alternate candidates. Post items that make me want to consider Candidate X. But, please, don't fall back on the "Consider Candidate X because (s)he is not 'Incompetent Trump'!" That's perhaps a reason, but good posters post more (meaning, "better")!

Or further, maybe you don't like the current system. Well, politic for change. But do it in a well-reasoned, well-presented manner. Don't keep bringing up the same old, tired tropes. For instance, if you're going to parade out that tired "But HRC won the popular vote" angle, don't. That's not currently the rules of the game. No one cares if your team leads the league at the end of the season in total runs scored; it's the total number of wins. So you might want the rules changed so "total runs" does equal a championship. If you might want that and, say, get rid of the Electoral College make a cogent, coherent, well-reasoned argument (in this particular case, you're going to have to really bring it because the Electoral College is one of the most (subtly) brilliant accomplishments/legacies of the Founding Fathers).

Anyway, and so forth. Anything less than something better and people will continue to take you as seriously as they do now. Which is to say, not at all. Honestly, no one should (want to) be the once-and-future деревенский дурачок.

--- End of line (MCP)
 
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GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
For the opposite reason, I like GURP's posts: he posts his articles (which reflect his views) and adds no (or little) commentary.

Anyway, and so forth. Anything less than something better and people will continue to take you as seriously as they do now. Which is to say, not at all. Honestly, no one should (want to) be the once-and-future деревенский дурачок.

--- End of line (MCP)




:yay:


Commentary comes later ....
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Dear Transporter,

Intervention time.

I could have picked any post of yours; it's purely random that I picked this one.
.
.
.
.
Anyway, and so forth. Anything less than something better and people will continue to take you as seriously as they do now. Which is to say, not at all. Honestly, no one should (want to) be the once-and-future деревенский дурачок.

--- End of line (MCP)

"You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!”
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Thank you. Maybe. But if so, then it's most likely more in the breach. :)

--- End of line (MCP)

When we were developing man-portable rocket-deployed mine-breaching systems back in the mid 80s...our paths might have crossed...
 
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