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Thread: This Kashoggi person

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0nllyn View Post
    We also shouldn't be helping the Saudis in their war crimes in Yemen.
    What are we doing?
    "I've got to start eating at home more" - J. Dahmer

  2. #52
    Registered User Yooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    Why do we care about him? He was a Saudi citizen who went missing in Turkey. How is this our problem and why is it on every news show?
    As someone who spent 2/3 of his career working in or supporting embassies/DoD initiatives/State initiatives in both non-intel- and intel-related assignments/agencies, etc. I can tell you that there are multitudes of reasons as to why we should care (both direct and indirect). I mentioned in an earlier post a number of dynamics where Saudi Arabia is key/central (some the U.S. wishes SA would not be so central, some the U.S. is glad it is).

    Interesting post this a.m. on NRO: What Do We Really Know about Saudi Arabia? that is spot-on and worth the read. That is generally the first question that comes up in embassy Country Team meetings when events like this happen. And when they do, the ambassador turns to both the CIA Chief of Station and DoD Defense Attache and asks, "What are your sources telling you?" And to be honest, in countries where operations are generally denied (like Russia, China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.) the answers are generally not very comprehensive; more speculative than factual.

    The same discussion is going on right now at the NSC, at Langley, at the Pentagon, at State, etc. Why? Because there is more to Kashoggi than Kashoggi. What happened to him and how the what happened are all clues to something bigger than Kashoggi. Here's Williamson:

    In the immediate aftermath of the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, one observer with considerable on-the-ground knowledge of Saudi affairs suggested that there were multiple possible explanations for the case: It could have been a straightforward hit on a critic of the regime ordered by Mohammad bin Salman himself; it could have been a straightforward hit on a critic of the regime carried out without the knowledge of Mohammad bin Salman; it could have been a hit carried out by rivals of Mohammad bin Salman, such as Mohammad bin Nayef, who had been next in line to the throne until Mohammad bin Salman pushed him aside, or Mutaib bin Abdullah, one of the Saudi princes arrested last year on corruption charges, who was fined $1 billion and removed from the government, for the purpose of messing with the crown prince’s life. It’s even possible that the Erdogan regime in Turkey was mixed up in this, he suggested.

    In other words, what happened to Kashoggi MAY provide critical insight into what's going on in the KSA. That's important for U.S. interests throughout the Middle East. So while the optics of Pompeo's visit to KSA may not be the best, they are still the right call: easier to get more info with smiles than frowns (we Americans tend to forget that other cultures play by different rules so that what may play well here doesn't "there" and vice versa). Also, if this is a internal family issue, then this could be a botched score settling ("botched," in the sense that it got out into the news cycle. That Turkey may have been responsible for getting it into the news cycle is also of great interest (one reason is that Erdogan and the U.S. are at odds these days and he just might have found a way to make mischief with the U.S. via the U.S.-KSA "alliance")).

    But much of the MSM journalists here in the U.S. are interested in Kashoggi because a) he's a journalist and probably, more importantly b) as another opportunity to blast Trump.

    I mentioned earlier that since Kashoggi was a journalist at some pojnt for the WaPo he might be afforded some protections under U.S. law b/c the WaPo is a U.S. company (and thus, the USG has a legal requirement to be interested). Don't know if that's true in this case, but back when I was in the game, where intel sources are concerned foreign citizens are afforded (at least, initially) the same rights as US citizens if they work for a U.S. entity (which the WaPo is). (Interestingly, journalists (like clergy) are a "protected class" when it comes to intel ops....)

    So, in summary, I think we should be interested in Kashoggi for three reasons. 1) international "Great Game" issues. 2) Human rights perspective. 3) Domestic political gaming in the run up to the mid-term elections (had this happened outside of an election window Kashoggi would only be a topic for the first two reasons and only among a far smaller crowd and we would end up with exactly Vrai's fair, initial question).

    --- End of ramble (MCP)
    Last edited by Yooper; 10-17-2018 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Clarification, Syntax, & Spelling
    I'm with Flynn.

  3. #53
    Registered User Yooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    Why do we care about him? He was a Saudi citizen who went missing in Turkey. How is this our problem and why is it on every news show?
    Another excellent contribution: Trump Is Right To Be Cautious With The Saudis On Kashoggi. Readers here may find the snippet on DIME interesting:

    A central plank of the education that officers receive at the War College is a paradigm called DIME. It is an acronym that lists the levers of power that the United States can employ to exert our will on other nations. It stands for Diplomacy, Information, Military, and Economic. Under these four headings exist every option that our government has to punish Saudi Arabia. It is useful to look at each, as the Trump administration will no doubt be doing, to see which, if any, would prove most effective.

    DIME has actually been expanded, but the expansion could more or less be considered sub-sets of DIME.

    I really enjoyed my year at the War College oh so way back when. My career track started out as a warfighter but moved on to more esoteric endeavors. It was interesting watching soon-to-be brigade commanders learn there was more to US power than solely kinetics. Hence, DIME.

    --- End of update (MCP)
    I'm with Flynn.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    What about the poor little muslim kids... Is there no Sunni Claus?

    I think it's awesome that the progs are losing their hivemind over the farts of a teenager. - Vrai

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by vraiblonde View Post
    The US-Saudi relationship must be preserved our national interest demands it



    So a big deal is being made about this Saudi guy by the Stalinists to derail our relationship with the Saudis.



    America really needs to Dems to lose big in the midterms.
    I think they're going big on this. From what I've read so far is they want to get rid of the Saudi prince reformer guy. Leftists in cahoots with terrorists...who'd a thunk, ey BHO?
    I think it's awesome that the progs are losing their hivemind over the farts of a teenager. - Vrai

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